party wall act

party wall act

Postby mark1 » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:00 pm

Could some-one please explain the party wall act in simple terms? If some-one lives in a terraced property and the properties are all offset so that when an extension is built the shared wall of one house (which at the moment is an outside wall) is the others inside wall (when the extension is built) does it make any difference to the neighbour of the other property?
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Re: party wall act

Postby Maverick.uk » Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:49 pm

[quote="hazelnut"]Could some-one please explain the party wall act in simple terms? ?[/quote]

Try this

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents ... pdf/133214

Regards

Mav

(edited 23/03/08 to update link)
Last edited by Maverick.uk on Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby mark1 » Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:59 am

Thank you Mav, have read briefly thru' this and is clearly written. It will help a lot.
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Postby Angelisle » Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:53 am

Hats off to Maverick.uk for finding that link 8)
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Postby Alan Harris » Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:11 pm

Dear Hazelnut

The wall between the properties is a party wall between them but the moment it only retains one home it is simply a wall lying with one side on the line of junction. If the neighbour wishes to add an extension to the external part of the wall he will need the agreement of the wall owner to use it. Alternatively they could approach the wall owner and could ask for agreement for it to become a party wall in which all of the relevant privelieges set out in the act would apply.

If there is no agreement for the extra wall to become a Party Wall then the notices would still be required for flashings to be attached to the wall or if the foundation depth of new wall were deeper than the existing foundations.

I hope that this helps.

Sincerely



Alan Harris
Alan is a consulting engineer specialising in subsidence, tree roots, soils and party wall surveying.
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Postby DeeDee » Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:24 am

Does this mean that the outside wall of a house, where the side of that house meets the end of an adjacent garden, would not be considered a party wall under law?

If that is the case then local councils and other officials need to revise their view or educate themselves.

The problems my parents have been having seem to hinge around the belief that the outside wall of their house (situated as described above) is a party wall. Which, from my limited understanding of the Party Wall etc Act 1996, it is not.

Thanks
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Postby Alan Harris » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:26 am

Dear Dee Dee

From what you say there is no physical aspect which defines your parents wall as a party wall unless the line of the boundary runs beneath it and that it clearly shown to be the case either from the description in the deeds or by the obvious placing of the fence beyond it.

The party wall act is a facillitating act to enable a building owner to do work to a shared wall on or near a boundary which may be desired/needed and a with a framework to protect the adjacent owner from unreasonable problems or damage to the wall or other walls or foundations which would otherwise be affected. Or if damage does occur the 1996 act brings the right to compensation, or allows for the damage to be put right at no cost to the adjacent owner.

It is not intended to prevent the building owner from doing legitimate work.

The Local Authority do not have a role under the act other than to offer the name of a surveyor in certain circumstances.

Often public officials have powers and them when they have adopted the role of "arbiter" in some circumstances they may see themselves as public arbiter about anything they may be asked about or think that they know about. Until someone issues a noticce under the act or should have issued a notice, then the act does not influence a matter between neighbours even if the one neighbour is a Local Authority. Once a notice is issued the act applies and the neighbours then have their disagreement, if one exists, settled by two or three surveyors in accordance with the act and good professional practice without the influence or pressure from their appointing owner (except the pressure to act fairly and professionally within their powers under the act).

Be very careful when taking direction or guidance from a public official to ensure that he or she has the powers that he or she attribute to his or her self.

Regards

Alan Harris.
Alan is a consulting engineer specialising in subsidence, tree roots, soils and party wall surveying.
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Postby TrevR » Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:44 am

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Postby Corby-Billy » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:07 pm

I'm probably being a bit thick here after reading over this party wall rule over & over again & still it's not sinking in

If a wall is built on the other side of the boundary albeit a foot or so away but if the footings for this wall encroaches under the boundary does that mean this PWA comes into play?
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Postby andrew54 » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:27 pm

Corby-Billy wrote:I'm probably being a bit thick here after reading over this party wall rule over & over again & still it's not sinking in

If a wall is built on the other side of the boundary albeit a foot or so away but if the footings for this wall encroaches under the boundary does that mean this PWA comes into play?


Yes. PWA act comes into play if any of the following applies.


... their foundations go under your land.

... their foundations go deeper than yours and within three metres of your house.

... within 6 metres of your wall their foundations go to a depth within a 45 degree line of yours.

The problem Billy, is that if they ignore the PWA there is little you can do.

Your situation is no worse than many other people. Your neighbour has the freedom to build this on his land. All you can do is refuse any permission for access or scaffolding, then involve HSE if you feel endangered. Talk to the builders as soon as they arrive, explain you will not allow access and explain you do use this area.
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Postby Corby-Billy » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:01 pm

andrew54 wrote:
Corby-Billy wrote:I'm probably being a bit thick here after reading over this party wall rule over & over again & still it's not sinking in

If a wall is built on the other side of the boundary albeit a foot or so away but if the footings for this wall encroaches under the boundary does that mean this PWA comes into play?


Yes. PWA act comes into play if any of the following applies.


... their foundations go under your land.

... their foundations go deeper than yours and within three metres of your house.

... within 6 metres of your wall their foundations go to a depth within a 45 degree line of yours.

The problem Billy, is that if they ignore the PWA there is little you can do.Your situation is no worse than many other people. Your neighbour has the freedom to build this on his land. All you can do is refuse any permission for access or scaffolding, then involve HSE if you feel endangered. Talk to the builders as soon as they arrive, explain you will not allow access and explain you do use this area.


As far as i know they will be almost butting up to the boundary at the utility end to fit this whole thing in
Please excuse me for being slow on this Andrew but why is this PWA such a big thing & yet they can ignore it?
I specialize in window & door construction & related locking systems so not knowledgable on this kind of stuff as you've probably noticed
:lol:
i just can't get my head around that a law can allow someone to build something which during the process can actually cause harm as being in such close proximity & yet that law doesn't make them responsible for nothing!
It might be the Law but it needs changing very quickly IMO

As far as i'm concerend common sense would tell anyone that if your going to build something that is close to people then move it far enough away so they can't possibly be hurt

But as already discussed. It looks like a wall has more rights than me

Totally & utterly unacceptable as far as i'm concerned no matter who dream't it up & what authority it holds
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Postby hzatph » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:21 pm

The fundamental purpose of the act is to enable people to build in the face of opposition from their neighbours, not to enable neighbours to oppose and stop building, hence it is written the way that it is. If they go ahead without serving the notices you can apply for an injunction to stop the work. However that will only halt them while they comply with the terms of the act. You can force them to appoint and pay for a surveyor to protect your interests.
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Postby Corby-Billy » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:29 am

hzatph wrote:The fundamental purpose of the act is to enable people to build in the face of opposition from their neighbours, not to enable neighbours to oppose and stop building, hence it is written the way that it is. If they go ahead without serving the notices you can apply for an injunction to stop the work. However that will only halt them while they comply with the terms of the act. You can force them to appoint and pay for a surveyor to protect your interests.


And that is precisley why it's written @rse for elbow IMO
Nobody should be entitled to do anything that forces others to change their life style to suit them
Extensions or what ever it may be
I feel i have evry right to oppose anything that is a concern to me.
The law should be just as much in support of me as it to others
In situations like this people who want to add to to their homes & get objections should be forced to accept the objections if they are on reasonable grounds
It's reasonable grounds that should count & nothing more
End of story as far as i'm concerned
Maybe i should contact Cherie Blair
She loves to stick her snout into all this human rights stuff
I work in an industry that is dictated by standards & Compliance
Level playing field for all who participate
It's the name of the game
If i want to do something to any home i live in and anyone objects on reasonable grounds then i'd accept that & go find another home that doesn't interfere with anybodies lifestyle
So far what i have learned about the Town & Country Planning Act 1990 it's the biggest bag of shiote i've ever had the priveldge of reading!
Utter nonsense
Why do planning laws get all the attention?
Why can't we organize parties every weekend till all hours of the morning etc
I think common sense tells us it's because we don't have the right to impose our lifestyles on others if they don't want it

Why should building be any different?
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Postby Conveyancer » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:33 pm

NIMBY :D
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Postby Corby-Billy » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:31 pm

Conveyancer wrote:NIMBY :D


Correct Conveyancer
That's why it's my back yard & not yours
That's why i pay for it & you don't.
It ain't rocket science
Do you work for a Council Planning office by any chance?

Anyway moving on

Went to see a Solicitor this morning. Even after my wife booked the appointment he openly admitted he wasn't up to speed with this type of stuff so next visit to see one who is won't be until next Tues

Went to the Jobsworths this morning an as true to form no one made themselves available to explain these plans to me after the promise someone would come across to discuss this party wall stuff

So from what i can understand the wall will be alongside the boundary for about 3.7 M then will dog leg back square away from the boundary as the boundary runs at an angle
Are the measurements on the plan to the outer face of the wall or to the outer edge of the foundations?
The drawing shows 2.7M & if that's the case someone isn't very good at reading a tape measure as that won't fit unless the fence is flattened!

The PWA Booklet section 20 states

You must also inform the adjoining land owner by serving notice if you plan to build a wall wholly on your land but up against the boundary line

Does butting up to the fence on the boundary line mean the same thing & are they saying physically butting up to or is there a specified gap of so many cm's etc?

No notice has been served to me :roll:

Section 23 of the Guide
You do have the right to place footings and foundations extending under the adjoining Owners land

So that blows out the theory they can't :(

Is it worth me just writing to them & explaining about this PWA to see if they actually have been aware of it?
Last edited by Corby-Billy on Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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