Building an extention next to a neigbours existing extension

Building an extention next to a neigbours existing extension

Postby Magicdrshoon » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:23 pm

Hello!

We are planning on building an extension. We have a 3 bed semi, and the attached house has an extension going from the rear about 13', and all the way across. We want to build a very similar extension.

The question that I want to ask is what happens about the wall that, on the house joins us, for the extension.

The neighbours extention doesn't come all the way to the edge of their property, it's about 100mm short. If we do the same, there would be a gap of 200mm between the two extentions, which would be odd! Is this what people do?

I don't seem to be explaining myself very well!


Any info would be greatly appreciated!
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Postby suzi » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:48 pm

dont know the answer but i do understand what you mean :)
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Postby subjecttocontract » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:11 pm

Whats the neighbours wall built of/ finished with ?.......facing bricks, blocks & render ?
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby teeny » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:33 pm

Magicdrshoon

This 100mm will be to account for eaves or guttering etc. and to make sure nothing crosses the boundary line. You will have to build short to allow for eaves or guttering as well.

If you were both building an extension at the same time then it would have made sense to have a party wall. Both would have more internal space and cheaper to build ie only one internal wall.

cheers
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Postby Magicdrshoon » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:29 am

My thoughts exactly!

It's a bare brick finish.

There is no guttering running along the side that faces us. I guessed that the reason they built it a little bit in was to ensure that their footings didn't come onto our property.

I wasn't sure that If I did the same as them, I would be going against some rule/regulation/guidence which states that access to an external wall must be a miniumum of 'X'mm.

There would only be a 200mm (maybe 300mm) to get to the external side of the existing wall.

The neighbours are good people and I would guess be flexible on what we did. Not sure what options would be open to us.

We haven't consulted a builder yet, I'm just mulling over ideas! The origional plan was to build up against their wall, as I thought it continued from the semi-detatched-joining wall, but on closer inspection, this wasn't the case!
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby Magicdrshoon » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:20 pm

For anyone who was following this thread (or for future visitors) we ended up making a cavity wall using their wall, a layer of insulation and then a block wall. The roof keys into theirs and looks like it was all built together.

It looks great! The neighbors have lost 100mm of land they would never see our use, but gained a smudge more insulation in their extension! Everyone's happy!
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:02 pm

Hi Magicdrshoon,

The neighbors have lost 100mm of land

surely they only ceded 50mm or are you claiming you own all the cavity? (assuming 100mm cavity)

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby ukmicky » Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:22 pm

1. You build up to the edge of your land and leave a gap which you insert a broom into every now and again and pull out any rubbish that has collected.
Or
2 You speak to your neighbours and get them to agree to allow you to place some weatherproofing that bridges the gap preventing rubbish from collecting and possible future damp issues

Number two also stops cats getting stuck between the two walls and fireman saying we may have to demolish part of the wall to get it out. (It happened to my cat Fluffy many years ago when he tried to get to a mouse nest between the two extensions)
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby Magicdrshoon » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:03 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Magicdrshoon,

The neighbors have lost 100mm of land

surely they only ceded 50mm or are you claiming you own all the cavity? (assuming 100mm cavity)

Kind regards, Mac


Possibly. The wall which faces the garden joins next door's extension. From the outside it certainly looks quite clear where the boundry is, which is where their extension used to come up to.
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby ukmicky » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:51 pm

As the neighbours wall was wholly on their land, it was not a party wall and therefore the party wall act e.t.c 1996 would not apply under section 2 to lawfully make use of the wall. Legally the owner of the wall was not under any obligation to allow you to enclose upon the wall.
In your case they allowed you to enclose upon their wall(was an agreement written to that effect?).
The section of the wall enclosed upon has now become a type B party wall and is now no longer in sole ownership and as the original owner(the neighbour) gave up some of "their rights" the "rights" would definitely attract a considerable financial compensation premium.
I have read some comments on garden law forum when a building owner encloses onto a neighbours external wall built up to the boundary, it is a party wall(this is an incorrect statement).
The wall is in the neighbours sole ownership, even if it is built to within a millimetre of the boundary and its foundations crossing the boundary.
The owner can refuse a request to enclose their wall and not accept any offer of payment; in this situation you may not enclose on the wall and must build an independent cavity wall wholly on your side of the boundary, with due consideration being given in the design to avoid causing any problems to the adjacent existing wall.
If the new foundation for the proposed wall is necessarily below the existing foundation for the neighbours wall; you must serve a section 6 notice of adjacent excavation .
Your neighbour gave consent for you to enclose their wall, therefore it is a type b party wall which is lawful from a legal stance.
If a building owner were to enclose a neighbours wall without their consent it would not automatically become a type be party wall because it would be considered an unlawful act in legal terms.


A type B party wall still remains in the ownership of the land it is on even though the neighbouring property has rights to perform work on the wall.

An equitable easement can also arise through proprietary estoppel and in these circumstances it would be a Type B .

If enclosed for long enough an easement right can also be gained and once that right is gained you have a Type B.

If a building owner were to enclose a neighbours wall without their consent it would not automatically become a type be party wall because it would be considered an unlawful act in legal terms.
Legally once an easement is created though prescription or any other means the law deems that it must have been granted
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby ukmicky » Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:49 pm

nothingtodowithme wrote:The disadvantage of the Prescription Act is that it requires the periods of twenty and forty years to be calculated up to the date when the action is brought. This can be difficult if there has been a period of non-user.
The doctrine of lost modern grant can found an easement on any continuous period of twenty years. It is therefore usual to plead the doctrine of lost modern grant as an alternative to the Prescription Act, and to include prescription at common law for good measure.
Under the Prescription Act, the easement claimed must be enjoyed as of right. In other words, it must be enjoyed openly, rather than furtively; continuously; without needing to apply force or committing an UNLAWFUL act.

Enclosing on a neighbours wall without their consent would be an UNLAWFUL act.
Equity will not come to the rescue of persons with unclean hands(persons committing unlawful acts).



Please!


I will give you the chance to correct your thinking ,so think about what your saying then comeback and change your post.
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby ukmicky » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:51 pm

nothingtodowithme wrote:The disadvantage of the Prescription Act is that it requires the periods of twenty and forty years to be calculated up to the date when the action is brought. This can be difficult if there has been a period of non-user.
The doctrine of lost modern grant can found an easement on any continuous period of twenty years. It is therefore usual to plead the doctrine of lost modern grant as an alternative to the Prescription Act, and to include prescription at common law for good measure.
Under the Prescription Act, the easement claimed must be enjoyed as of right. In other words, it must be enjoyed openly, rather than furtively; continuously; without needing to apply force or committing an UNLAWFUL act.

Enclosing on a neighbours wall without their consent would be an UNLAWFUL act.
Equity will not come to the rescue of persons with unclean hands (persons committing unlawful acts).


You fail to understand how equity works or what Proprietary estoppel and the doctrine of laches is

You fail to understand the difference between unlawful act in the criminal sense compared to an unlawful act in the common law sense.


You agreed with the law in previous threads that someone can gain a Prescriptive easement granting a ROW when they have trespassed by walking on land (Obviously to you that is not unlawful )but fail to see how someone can gain a prescriptive easement when they have trespassed by attaching to a wall (Obviously to you that is unlawful) . What is the difference?

So what in your opinion is unlawful?
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Re: Building an extention next to a neigbours existing exten

Postby jdfi » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:16 pm

nothingtodowithme wrote:
Magicdrshoon wrote:For anyone who was following this thread (or for future visitors) we ended up making a cavity wall using their wall, a layer of insulation and then a block wall. The roof keys into theirs and looks like it was all built together.

It looks great! The neighbors have lost 100mm of land they would never see our use, but gained a smudge more insulation in their extension! Everyone's happy!



I am pleased for you and it may benefit other readers if they take all posts on board and proceed with caution.


An amazingly positive and sensible conclusion. I trust you both signed a document to formalise this?
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