Raising a party wall

Re: Raising a party wall

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:38 pm

Hi arborlad,

astride, is when half a feature sits on one land and half on another and the boundary will lie in the centre of the structure.

astride, is when some of a feature sits on one land and some on another and the boundary will lie in the structure.

ie. it doesn't have to run down the centre (apologies for 'nitpicking').

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby ams » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:07 pm

arborlad wrote:
ams wrote: I'll find out whether my neighbour thinks it's on the boundary when i speak to him.

The wall lines up with what I would think was the boundary, but there's an extension there, so it's not completely clear.

What is it about the extension that is making things unclear, is it yours or your neighbours?


The garden wall is aligned with the side wall of the neighbours extension. I believe that to be also a party wall (the previous owner of my house had planned a matching extension utilising the same wall, but never built it), but that's also unconfirmed. It's hard to tell, without careful measurement, how that aligns with the definite party walls internal to the house.

Anyway, this is all besides the point, which is that I'm trying to understand the case where a wall does turn out to be astride the boundary. Whether the wall is, or is not, a party fence wall will be determined in due course.

I fear I've confused the issue by posing my question as a concrete example, rather than simply starting out with an abstract scenario. :(
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:09 am

Hi ams,

don't worry - we're not confused.

there is a garden wall and you don't know if any of it stands on your land, but you do know it was erected by the neighbour.

you are wanting to build it up to a greater height if you can convince him it's partly on your land OR erect a fence if unsuccessful.

you have no idea whether it does or doesn't, but you were going to throw the PWA into the mix when you came to speak to the neighbour in the vain hope it bamboozles him into thinking it does.

however, you now realise doing this will almost certainly wind up with him not giving consent and a dispute arising (costly for you).

is that close?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby ams » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:37 pm

Close, except that I'm pretty sure he does know whether the wall is astride the boundary or not, and that I've not just "now realised" about the dispute.

What I have now realised is that I went the wrong way about asking how to deal with said dispute, if and when it arises.
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:41 pm

Hi ams,

I'm pretty sure he does know whether the wall is astride the boundary or not

and what do you suppose he'd do if you served him with a PWA notice?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby ams » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:30 pm

nothingtodowithme wrote:Your neighbour built the wall why do you think he would build it astride the boundary? and not on his own land.
You stated hedges were removed and then he built his wall.
Can you tell us the history leading up to the event?


Alas not. It was all before I moved here. I know there was some bad feeling, but I don't know how far the various neighbours took it. There was some suggestion that he made a bit of a land-grab, but I'm only getting this from half-remembered gossip years after the fact.

I think he would build it astride the boundary because he wouldn't want to give up a single inch of his garden. As a minimum, I believe the pillars to be on my side of the boundary. I had another look at the wall alignment this morning, and it is in fact not perfectly aligned with the edge of his extension, but an inch or so our way, which makes me even more convinced that it was intended to stand astride the boundary.
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Hi ams,

What I have now realised is that I went the wrong way about asking how to deal with said dispute, if and when it arises.

1. spend a shed load of time, money and energy first proving it is a party wall, then second to have a surveyor/some surveyors work out the way forward before you finally get your way.
OR
2. put a fence up.

of course you could always default to option 2 at any time you like...

I'd speak to the neighbour to establish whether he thinks the wall he built is stood wholly on his land - including the pillars - without going into why I'm asking.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby ams » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:15 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:I'd speak to the neighbour to establish whether he thinks the wall he built is stood wholly on his land - including the pillars - without going into why I'm asking.


Good idea! :idea:
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby jonahinoz » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:40 am

Hi,

This is a party wall? Which your neighbour built? Without agreeing it with your predecessor?

Same question about your neighbours other two walls.

If all else fails, you still have the right to erect an ugly fence, 2 metres high, on your side of the wall. I presume that you can place the posts between the piers, but best to ask your neighbour ... maybe he will suggest a more pleasing arrangement. :roll:

John W
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby Roblewis » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:31 pm

You also have the right to issue a Line of Junction notice to try and establish the boundary so as to raise your own wall but I think you should have the conversation with the neighbour to see what he believes the location of the wall represents and then you can make some real judgements not pure guesstimates based on what might be the case.
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby ams » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:39 pm

So, I finally had "the conversation". It did not go well. :-(

I spent months trying to find the right materials to ensure that the new work would be in keeping with the existing walls, but it was all to no avail because he refused to even hear me out. He just said "I built that wall. I'm happy with it. You can't touch it without my consent, and I'm not giving it".

The only good thing is that he never denied that it is a "party fence wall".

The next thing then is to serve formal notice on him that we need to go down the dispute resolution route. I then expect him to do nothing about it, but the Party Wall Act has ways and means of dealing with that.

Does anybody here have any experience with the "surveyors" process? Any advice how to do, or not do it? What sort of costs might I consider reasonable?

Thanks
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:45 pm

Hi ams,

he never denied that it is a "party fence wall"

not too sure what you mean - was he asked and refused to answer?

I'd consider erecting a low-cost fence if he cannot be reasonable.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby ams » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:55 pm

Yeah, he told me it was his wall. I said, "no, it straddles the boundary", and he didn't argue. This happened several times in different ways. I never got him to say that it was, but if I was wrong he would certainly have said so. He just stuck to saying I can't do anything without his consent, which is half-true.

I'm getting a quote for a wooden fence, but we'd rather stick with plan A. At the very least, I'm exploring the possibility.

As a side question, does anybody know whether there'd be any trouble with screwing a fence to the wall? The garden isn't big enough to lose a foot building a completely stand-alone wall, so I'd like it as flush as possible.

I'd still like to know if anybody has any experience with the dispute resolution process?
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby arborlad » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:25 pm

nothingtodowithme wrote:Your neighbour has verbally cautioned: you are not permitted to touch his wall;



Of itself, without substantiation, the neighbours comments mean nothing. In matters boundary, lots of people will say lots of thing.



I do have experience with the dispute resolution process; however I am unwilling to divulge on an open forum.


That's what Private Messaging is for, of course it's entirely up to you whether you share anything in this way and the OP has to be aware of anything that hasn't passed the scrutiny of the open forum.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Raising a party wall

Postby ams » Fri Feb 13, 2015 6:41 pm

The resolution is: he's not agreeing to anything, and professional surveyors turn out to be expensive.

Basically, I can have what I want (probably) if I'm willing to shell out a 4-figure sum (that probably doesn't start with a '1').
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