Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby famflips » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:13 pm

We are also another household affected by neighbours tree roots - and if my experienes are anything to go by then
do not bring in or contact your local TPO officer - whome it seems are only interested in taking action to protect the owner of any offending tree. Judge for yourselves -

Last Feb we informed our next door neighbour - of some 30 years residence - that the roots of his two large front garden trees bordering our drive within 3 feet - were breaking up and lifting - a. The concrete drive b. Concrete garage floor (now unable to close the lift up door) c. Extended under the garage to the far side into the rear garden and lifting garden paved path.

After some delay it was agreed that remedial action would be sought through neighbours insurance - with further delay attributed to neighbour wishing to establish whether or not his two trees "'were affected'" by any existing TPOs.
As things were dragging on I too in Sept contacted the TPO to explain the damage being caused my property
and to confirm that NO TPO existed - Only to be advised that there had not been any TPO existing up untill Sept whereby
my neigbour and/or the TPO office had visited viewed and initiated a TPO All in my absence and without informing
me. The TPO office say they had sent me a notice by post office recorded delivery but state were unable to be delivered (no one is at home to sign during the day)

My neighbour is a local surveyor by profession and no doubt often in contact with council officials - prompting
thoughts of collusion but this of course is not easy to prove.

As I understand it - under TPOs it will be unlawful for me to have these roots removed and I shall have to live
with all of the problems shown in a - b - c above. Do we have 28 days to object to the TPO or 6 month ?

Any helpful advice and repies would be appreciated. SHERWOOD

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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby despair » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:43 pm

You need Treeman or TO or TOTOO to answer this

but personally i simply cannot see with that amount of damage a TPO could be upheld

Theres another case on this forum where a Council removed TPOs from some Oak Trees for fear of being sued in regards to the damage to a house after pressure from the damaged home owners Insurance Co

Since your neighbour has prevaricated i think you need to contact your own buildings insurer very fast indeed
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby Treeman » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:07 am

despair wrote:You need Treeman or TO or TOTOO to answer this

but personally i simply cannot see with that amount of damage a TPO could be upheld

Theres another case on this forum where a Council removed TPOs from some Oak Trees for fear of being sued in regards to the damage to a house after pressure from the damaged home owners Insurance Co

Since your neighbour has prevaricated i think you need to contact your own buildings insurer very fast indeed

There you go again, quoting something you heard like it is gospel. What that is is hear say at best. If we accept the felling was allowed you still don't know what other mitigating circumstances exist and you certainly can't state categorically that the felling was because the LA was afraid of litigation can you? You need to look at the wider picture
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby despair » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:44 am

Treeman ............what felling .............the OP is worried sick because the roots from neighbours trees that he refuses to fell are causing major damage to their properrty

Instead of addressing the damage the neighbour has applied for TPOs on the trees that are causing the damage

is that really what TPOs are designed for

Please reread the OP s posting
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby Treeman » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:01 pm

despair wrote:Treeman ............what felling .............the OP is worried sick because the roots from neighbours trees that he refuses to fell are causing major damage to their properrty

Instead of addressing the damage the neighbour has applied for TPOs on the trees that are causing the damage

is that really what TPOs are designed for

Please reread the OP s posting



The fellings, that would be the oak trees in the other thread YOU mentioned.

Once again you change the subject.

Don't you see your reference to here say like its gospel polutes this forum with
misinformation that serves no one?

You aren't gossiping over the fence here, the entire world can hear you.

And once again I find myself cleaning your mess rather than answering questions.
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby despair » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:06 pm

Treeman simply answer Famflips posting please
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby Treeman » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:16 pm

Famflips

Your first action needs to be to establish that the trees are causing an actionable nuisance. This needs to be imperical evidence.

You might need some expert help with that part.

Take that to the head of planning, complain about the service of notice and ask them why the officer in question is making an order in respect of a tree implicated in an actionable nuisance

EDIT

Most insurance policies exclude fences and non attached garages so don't let the misinformation get your hopes up
Last edited by Treeman on Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby Treeman » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:20 pm

despair wrote:Treeman simply answer Famflips posting please


I can only do one thing at a time, how about you stop posting misleading stuff then I can get on with answering questions rather than cleaning up after you

Your entire posting was wrong except for

You need Treeman or TO or TOTOO to answer this


If you know nothing, say nothing
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby famflips » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:05 pm

TPO Unhelpful

Thanks to you both - Despair and Treeman - Information gratefully received.

I have at long last received a letter from the TPO dept that advises I should forward my objection etc within 21 days.

Apart from now being handicapped in taking action to protect my property - (Thanks to the local PTO office) I shall be asking the TPO people that before so readily granting TPOs - why is there
apparantly no obligation for a PTO applicant to state there are no outstanding complaints from neighbours and to their best of knowledge their trees are not damaging or breaking up nearby property.

Thanks again - Signed Sherwood

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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby despair » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:11 pm

Together with your TPO objection do ensure you include a copy of all your correspondance with the neighbour
Dates of conversations and details of the damage done by the trees

Obviously you need to contact your Insurers to establish what is and is not covered

Have you also checked EVERYTHING inc Mortgages /insurances /credit cards/union memberships for Legal Expenses Cover
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby famflips » Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:55 pm

Further useful points you raise Despair - Aside from my case now made more difficult thanks to TPO office - I beleive I read somewhere that it is set out in garden law that it is the responsibility of all tree owners to ensure that their trees do not pose any danger - and are not
causing damage to neighbouring property -. If the TPO is fully sanctioned then I may decide to bring the inadequacies of our local TPO officer - as outlined earlier - to the attention of the local press - Sherwood
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby Treeman » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:44 pm

It's worth remebering that TPO is not set in stone and works up to and including felling can be allowed IF there are acceptable grounds.

Make your case with evidence and ask for the trees casuing damage to be excluded from the order which can then be confirmed as ammended, its a dance that goes on all the time but some just dont know that and you get hinkey advice
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby TOTOO » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:48 pm

As has already been said - you need to state your case in your objection.

It will then be up to the LA Planning Decisions manager or Planning Commitee to uphold the TPO.

What must be remembered is that the TPO officer is not trying to make your situation difficult. They are there to protect trees that make a significant contribution to the amenity of the area/borough.
Amenity value/contribution is a topic for another thread and too complex to discuss here.

Obviously theTPO officer feels that this is the case regarding the trees in question and they will be trying to defend the serving of the TPO. I would imagine that they will be fully aware of any potential claim for damages you may have.

If indeed the TPO is upheld, you would not be prevented to still claim for damages from your neighbour but the difference being that if remedial tree works are required an application will need to be approved by the LA.

This is the interesting part because should the LA refuse remedial tree works as a result of tree related damage then the LA stands to be financially responsible for the tree rather than the actual tree owner, i.e. the any insurance claim will be shifted to the LA not the tree owner.
Obviously the LA will have to defend this postion or not. They will be weighing up the amenity value of the tree against any financial implications.

I can give you a similar example that I am currently dealing with: There is a huge mature Lebanese Cedar in the front garden of a property in my borough. It has a long-served TPO and the owners of the property have recently submitted an application to fell the tree because it has lifted thier drive in one area for approximately one metre in length.
I have refused the application even though it is pretty evident that one of the trees roots has lifted the drive in this area.
The tree has hugely significant amenity value and I and the LA are prepared to take any reasonable finacial 'hit' should it result in a claim. The applicant can aslo appeal to the Secretary of State against the LA decision
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby despair » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:54 pm

the damage being done to Famflips property does seem to be far reaching and expensive surely Local Councils are not so awash with money these days that they or their insurers would shoulder the cost of such damage
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Re: Tree Roots LA PTO hinderance

Postby famflips » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:18 pm

LA TPO hindrances

Thankyou for all the input. The trees in question are Maple and Larch and have grown to twice the size of
the house - ie estimated at some 80-90 feet . I have now heard from the PTO staff whereby I have approx 20 days to give notification of any objection. On the point that trees can add to the enjoyment of the environment - Yes
- except to house owners looking on helplessly as their property continues to sustain damage - and that in law will have to be disclosed to any potential buyer when the the house comes up for sale - with results expected that need no spelling out ! Not to mention that this area is absolutely awash with trees and especially the tree owner who has more than a whole line of additional trees on his property .

It is beyond belief that a TPO can be issued without any need of the tree owner to declare - or the issueing TPO official to ascertain whether or not the trees are known to be causing damage to property or any other complaint .

From my experiences I can only advise others suffering from similar damage from trees that if thinking of approaching your PTO council member for assistance - Forget it !

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