Tree Preservation Orders

Tree Preservation Orders

Postby yamdrachir » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:46 pm

I am negotiating to purchase a 1987 built property, in a conservation area, which has an average size garden containing a holm oak, a pine, and a horse chestnut tree, all of which are subject to TPOs. The TPOs were placed upon the trees prior to the house being constructed. The trees are huge, and whilst not keeping light off the subject property, cast big shadows at certain times of day over the neighbouring gardens.

Q1- Can these neighbours take any legal action against me, a new owner,for loss of light etc bearing in mind I cannot do anything drastic to the trees by law? I intend to apply through a tree surgeon for planning for any maximum pruning allowed.
Q2- Buildings Insurance. The nearest tree is over 5m from the house. There is no sign of any movement or subsidence problems and a likelehood that the developer put in a root barrier when the property was built. Can anyone suggest a competitive understanding insurer to discuss this with?

Any help would be much appreciated.
yamdrachir
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:53 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby Treeman » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:03 pm

Q1- Can these neighbours take any legal action against me, a new owner,for loss of light etc bearing in mind I cannot do anything drastic to the trees by law? I intend to apply through a tree surgeon for planning for any maximum pruning allowed.

You have nothing to worry about


Q2- Buildings Insurance. The nearest tree is over 5m from the house. There is no sign of any movement or subsidence problems and a likelehood that the developer put in a root barrier when the property was built. Can anyone suggest a competitive understanding insurer to discuss this with?

Unobtainium
Treeman
 
Posts: 3993
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 am

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby hzatph » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:34 pm

Q1 ditto
Q2 ditto

Answer insurers questions accurately ... but I would counsel against giving them information that they do not ask for.
hzatph
 
Posts: 2461
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:37 am

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby henners » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:57 pm

Don't buy.

Assume the worse - the TPO officer on the LPA might be a member of Friends of the Earth.
Do some research - if you are lucky enough to have a LPA that has all planning information on-line, look at the applications over the previous two years and see how the LPA respond to applications for consent. TPO officers do change.

Ask yourself how much growth the trees got left in them.
Ask yourself about the root and canopy spread, don't assume there's a root barrier or the groundworks are strong enough to withstand the pressure from large horizontal roots.
Ask yourself about the relationships with your neighbours - you may not have problems with these trees but your neighbours might.
Ask yourself about the potential liabilities you are opening yourself up to - negligence and nuisance (TPO do not licence either of these).
Ask yourself about the cost of maintaining the tree - yearly surveys, removal of deadwood, leaf litter from the horse chestnut.

TPO aren't what they appear to be - your neighbours can install groundworks to protect their property and you are liable for the cost of these works (any doubt about this point, take a look at the appeal court judgement in Perrin v Northampton).

Don't buy it.
The trees may be an amenity to folks walking past your new home, but they'll become a nightmare to you.

Trust me....
henners
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:06 pm

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby Treeman » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:59 am

Assume the worse - the TPO officer on the LPA might be a member of Friends of the Earth.

Thats not relevant, all that is relevant is the legislation, the LA and the tree owner have to work within.

don't assume there's a root barrier or the groundworks are strong enough to withstand the pressure from large horizontal roots.

How much pressure do large horizontal roots exert?, they don’t move only the tip of the root moves forward and the end of that is a few cells wide, how much can that bring to bear without crushing itself? What you are doing is scaremongering.


Ask yourself about the relationships with your neighbours - you may not have problems with these trees but your neighbours might.

Already covered in the first post

Ask yourself about the potential liabilities you are opening yourself up to - negligence and nuisance (TPO do not licence either of these).
That’s the same with any tree and the TPO makes no difference whatsoever.

Ask yourself about the cost of maintaining the tree - yearly surveys, removal of deadwood, leaf litter from the horse chestnut.

Yearly inspections? Please..........


TPO aren't what they appear to be - your neighbours can install groundworks to protect their property and you are liable for the cost of these works (any doubt about this point, take a look at the appeal court judgement in Perrin v Northampton).

More scaremongering, if you don’t understand the situation don’t make such sweeping statements that are clearly inaccurate.


Trust me....

Don’t this poster has an anti tree/ TPO agenda and the advice is strongly biased.
Treeman
 
Posts: 3993
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 am

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby henners » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:40 pm

Should I resist the temptation to say: "Ignore Treeman, he has strong pro-tree and pro-protection order bias", well no.

Treeman is correct, in certain respects, that some aspects are the same whether a TPO is protected of not.

Maintenance costs.
Neighbour disputes ranging from general unpleasantness to litigation.
Negligence and Nuisance.

The others are circumstancial.
You might be able to control the impact on your neighbours, and yourself, if the tree is unprotected. It is down to the prejudices of the TPO officer if the tree is protected.
There is one set of legistlation but LPA practices vary greatly - the actual decision process (consent or refusal) is generally down to one person. It only goes to a planning committee if there's objections.

Would I buy an house with an unprotected tree on the boundary of a neighbours garden, well no.
Would I buy an house with an protected tree on the boundary of a neighbours garden, well no.
Would I buy an house with an protected tree within the curtilige of the property being bought, well no.
Would I buy an house with an unprotected tree within the curtilige of the property, well only if I could get the vendor to fell before I signed contracts.
henners
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:06 pm

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby Treeman » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:11 pm

Should I resist the temptation to say: "Ignore Treeman, he has strong pro-tree and pro-protection order bias", well no.

Not at all, i fell trees for a living.

There is one set of legistlation but LPA practices vary greatly - the actual decision process (consent or refusal) is generally down to one person. It only goes to a planning committee if there's objections.


Now you need to mention that there is an appeal process that is free and not part of the LA's process. If you knew that, omiting it is called frugal with the truth, if you didnt know that you should have.
Treeman
 
Posts: 3993
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 am

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby arborlad » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:22 pm

henners wrote:Would I buy an house with an unprotected tree on the boundary of a neighbours garden, well no.
Would I buy an house with an protected tree on the boundary of a neighbours garden, well no.
Would I buy an house with an protected tree within the curtilige of the property being bought, well no.
Would I buy an house with an unprotected tree within the curtilige of the property, well only if I could get the vendor to fell before I signed contracts.


The whole would lead to a remarkably short, 'short list'................and the last one!!
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7387
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby henners » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:16 pm

Ummm.

A sorter list I grant.

However, as the substancial number of contributers to this site, whose lives are blighted by the presence of protected trees on their own land or blighted by the presence of unprotected and protected trees on neighbouring land, testify, some caution should be exercised before any property purchase where there are trees on the property or close by.

A pair of broad leaf limes might look nice when they 20 years old, but at 40 and standing 35-45 metre high they take on a totally different complexion. This is true for a substantial number of other tree species too. Most of us have little choice but to live in little boxes on hillsides, and substancial trees in this sort of environment blights peoples lives.

The following comes to mind: buy in haste repent at leisure.
henners
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:06 pm

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby arborlad » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:33 pm

henners wrote: However, as the substancial number of contributers to this site,........... .


There are 2183 topics in the 'Trees' section of this site.

There are 3814 million trees in the UK.

People with problems find their way to this site, trying to gauge the level of those problems by the contents of this site is a flawed concept.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7387
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Tree Preservation Orders

Postby hzatph » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:15 pm

Of course this board contains stories of people blighted by trees .... that is why they are come here.
hzatph
 
Posts: 2461
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:37 am

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Return to Trees

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexa [Bot] and 2 guests