crown lifting .......... your definition please

Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby TO » Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:26 am

Hi

arsie wrote:The original post.....does seem to me to warrant support for the tree blightee not the blighter
It's not support they want its honest unbiased advice, which cannot be given when sides are taken and fault, where none exists, is apportioned.

arsie wrote: However, the root cause of these situations lies with the owner
That is your view, which seeks to find blame for something where nothing wrong has been done.

arsie wrote:simply not fair
What's fair got to do with it.

arsie wrote:Being able to do absolutely nothing about the situation in law
Not true, you can cut to the boundary.

arsie wrote:In my opinion there ought to be something more than the high hedge legislation, to cater for trees which, deliberately planned or just inherited, are not suitable species for a crowded urban environment
That's your opinion and counts for nought. What matters is the law.

arsie wrote:there are some magnificent specimens such as mature sycamore standing proud and solitary
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, it's not location or species dependent.

arsie wrote: No one should be allowed to grow such a plant without consideration or better for those affected
You can do what you want within the law, with out the need of the consent of your neighbour. I'm sure your home is your castle.

arsie wrote:Many will not have the money to pay for or contribute much towards tree surgery. And why should they, as an unwitting victim
Because you shouldn't expect everyone else to do your bidding, be at your beck and call, and because you can cut back to the boundary. There are no victims, there has been no crime committed.

arsie wrote: The tree preservation lobby has set the bar very low at 75mm diameter trunk for a tree to be automatically under protection.
Are you suggesting all tree over 75mm diameter or protected? They aren't.

arsie wrote:We need legislation for high trees in dense urban situations.
Why what benefit to the wider population. 99.99% of property owners not affected by trees isn't news. It just gets blown out of all proportion on websites like this when the other 0.009% seek advice and get tea and sympathy on sites like this by a few blinkered people.

TO
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby arsie » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:15 am

TO, you have your views I have mine. I believe I am allowed to express my opinion and offer advice and support to others subject to the rules of the forum. I do not wear blinkers.

Cutting back overhang does not by itself solve the blocking of light from peoples gardens by massive trees though it may slightly lessen it. More vigourous growth on the sunny side is often the tree's reaction and this can make the problem worse. The modern tendency is to say in effect 'stuff you I will do what suits me'. Some tree owners overlook the effect of their 'freedom to do what they like' and this is I think choosing to ignore the responsibility of owning big trees and the expense of maintaining them.

In law at the moment they are free to escape the consequences on others. My home is my castle and I do love my trees - so my neighbour can live in the dark and not have the full and proper enjoyment of his garden.

This happens often enough to be controversial and something ought to be done in law in my opinion.

Blinkered or not, I guess that TO stands for tree officer.
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby COGGY » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:11 pm

Hi TO and Pinkie
Sorry to go slightly off the point but may I ask if either of you have a large tree(s) casting shadow over your gardens, taking the moisture from the soil and generally spoiling your enjoyment of your own garden? It is all very well to support the tree owner but do you not believe the neighbour also deserves consideration.

The majority of large trees were planted when the countryside was not so heavily populated as now. The picture put on by Despair, in my opinion, shows a tree which is totally unsuitable for the area in which it grows.

The fact that someone wishes to enjoy their own garden, without shadow from trees growing in adjoining gardens, surely does not make that person a bully, which is what appears to be insinuated above.

I love trees, when growing in an appropriate situation.
Coggy
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby Treeman » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:59 pm

despair wrote:The problem in this particular case is the affected neighbour has not asked /bullied or harassed the tree owner

they simply explained their problem last year and knowing how attached the owner is to the tree did not instruct tree surgeons to simply remove the trespass as the law allows knowing this would make the tree look lop sided and upset the owner

Instead they were told the tree surgeon would do a crown lift and this was confirmed so they waited patiently but now upset is inevitable



It matters not one iota what the definition of a crown lift is, what would matter would be an agreed specification, if there were any sort of enforceable agreement in place.

Any sort of pruning from the lower margins can be described as a crown lift but since you say the owner is a attached to the tree why are you surprised that the extent of the pruning isn't what you thought it ought to be

Tell your people to instruct a contractor and that's an end to the matter.
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby arsie » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:51 pm

I too maintain next doors trees and hedge, the latter allowed to grow by the previous owner who also planted an acacia 4m from the boundary and a sycamore virtually on the boundary. They also have a huge willow in the middle of the large garden thank goodness and other trees near what is to them their northern boundary e.g. a rowan. He moved in some thirty years ago and proceeded to 'take over' the deciduous hedge then 5 foot high and maintainable from the ground by my father-in-law and allowed it to grow to 10 foot to allow him privacy for landscaping complete with a wendy house towering over our garden. This all on the southern boundary.

Photos show there wasn't at first a problem but the sycamore and acacia had a battle for the light and grew from perhaps 5m high to well over 25m and to obscure the sun much of the year and days round. The hedge was so high there was a permafrost zone 1/3rd across our garden for months on end in bad winters.

I came on the scene about fifteen years ago. My partner divorced and then bringing up children had plenty to deal with apart from trees and hedges. I suspect like many, the trees just sort of snuck up. I imagine the elderly person who Despair first posted about had a similar but different story. Tree growth is year by year and no one does anything until it becomes too big to handle easily or cheaply. The tree owners do little or nothing and the problem trees grow and grow. It is not just a matter of not buying if the trees are a problem!

Next door with the trees was sold over three years ago and for a year or so preceding the sale no hedge trimming occurred. The new neighbours (NHS, he consultant and she medical malpractice insurance expert working at home respectively) are extremely into the country: keep chickens which attract rats for food and foxes, dogs which run loose and bark without control, and don't trim the trees or our mutual boundary hedge.

After a year or two, while they are employing contractors to see to trees and hedge at the front, I enquire when they plan to resume trimming (their) our boundary hedge, which by now has sprouted small trees. "I'm getting round to it". Six months pass and last spring I ask again. "It's on my list". At this I asked if I may have a go. "If you want to". I bought a small chain saw and working platform from Screwfix and it took me two weeks in spring to take down the 9 foot growing saplings and reduce the main height from 10 foot to approximately 8 foot. Growth since then has been amazing but the autumn trim took me only a weekend just a few days ago. Bearing in mind I am 67 years old and not particularly fit and these people have pots of money, I do slightly resent their attitude that this is not important to them and we can go hang. As I get older I find churlish behaviour gets under my skin more quickly than when I was younger and had a lifetime ahead of me. Thank goodness I took action and got permission though, so at least my new veggie patch gets some light. I took the liberty of "trimming" a few growing trees near the hedge, propping the chain saw on top of the hedge at the max extension. I was able to reach over their ridiculously wide hedge (6 foot in parts) and do the deed.

I cannot really understand why, with this sort of attitude, they insisted on felling the sycamore only months after they came. I suspect they have a future garden development in mind but, without this tree having been felled, I would have no vegetables - they don't grow without the sun.

I do resent having to do unpaid labour for these arseholes though. Loadsa money, no grace whatsoever. Kids all at the most expensive private day school in Norfolk. But you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear - and we know about pigs around here ;)

So that is my story.
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby despair » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:28 pm

Oh Arsie

How much i feel for you and understand your predicament

Sadly rather too many of their ilk seem to abound these days
And oh if only things were as easy or cut and dried as treeman suggests


The very last thing the neighbour i have sought info for wants is to upset the tree grower

But sadly that is now pretty ineviatable because access to climb the tree and cut back to the boundary will have to be via owners garden
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby COGGY » Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:29 pm

We are not in a conservation area, our neighbour is. They have planted, within the last 8/10 years, a silver birch tree which is now higher than the roof of their two storey property. This tree is planted extremely close to the boundary. At present it does not bother us, which is just as well, as we would not be permitted to "cut back to the boundary" without permission and I am 100 percent certain the neighbour will not cut back at all.

The tree was not in situe when we purchased. Therefore Pinkie whilst I am pleased that you are in the fortunate position to be able to "cut back to the boundary" please appreciate that not everyone is that fortunate.
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby arborlad » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:07 pm

arsie wrote: What I believe about France is not worth much discussion however here is a link from a few seconds exploring on google which no doubt could be right or not like so much on the Internet :roll:
http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/property-rights/trees/



Not sure how you say things are better in France, in the UK, we can excercise a common law right to cut back to the boundary, subject also to any statutory protection the tree may have. In France you have to apply to the courts.
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby arsie » Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:12 pm

arborlad wrote:
arsie wrote: What I believe about France is not worth much discussion however here is a link from a few seconds exploring on google which no doubt could be right or not like so much on the Internet :roll:
http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/property-rights/trees/



Not sure how you say things are better in France, in the UK, we can excercise a common law right to cut back to the boundary, subject also to any statutory protection the tree may have. In France you have to apply to the courts.


Yes, maybe I am wrong and the grass is not greener: but I remain unconvinced that the right to cut back to the boundary is all that much use, any more than crown lifting (back on topic :P). My neighbour's acacia now over 20m tall is beginning to come our side: but even if we did shin up and lop branch(es) we would still be shaded from 2pm onwards (at this time of year) until past 5pm, by which time the sun is weak. Given relations as they are I ain't even gonna ask for permission to hire an arborist to go up there. Waste of my breathe and money.
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby arsie » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:25 am

Does anyone else find that reporting a post has little effect? Maybe it's just me :?

edit: not arborlad's but definitely tree related ;)
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby COGGY » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:02 pm

Hi Pinkie
Sorry to go off post but I think you are missing the point. What is possible and easy at one time of life, is more difficult later. My point was that our neighbours deliberately planted their tree very close to the boundary, in the knowledge that it was blocking our view of a local hill and knowing that we had recently had a similar tree cut down due to the mess it made which we were finding it difficult to cope with.

You appear to believe that anyone who objects to a tree is a tree hater. This is far from being the truth. Most people on this site seem to me to like their garden and wish to enjoy them. Fallen leaves, branches etc may be easy to control when young but are more problem as one grows older.

I was not complaining about our neighbours tree, simply making the point that they planted it in an unsuitable position.

Whatever we do in life, be it having a family, planting trees, etc. should be done responsibly. Children should be taught to respect others. Trees should be planted with consideration to the neighbours. That is my point. Sorry if this is long winded and appears unfriendly. It is not meant to be. There are two sides to every problem.

Best wishes
Coggy
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby despair » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:28 pm

Coggy

How right you are
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby despair » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:04 pm

Pinkie

When your garden is blighted by trees and to even be able to cut tall trees right back to the boundary a tree surgeon has to climb the tree from the owners garden the neighbour remains at the mercy of the tree grower

Its easy to say "find a way to live in harmony with the trees" but in reality it simply is not possible
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby despair » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:22 am

Pinkie

The entire problem you highlight is 100% down to admin@ gardenlaw
It is not of my making

Despair's posts are subject to moderation and placed in a moderation queue for approval. Consequently there may be some delay before they appear.
For Despair to say that the problem is 100% gardenlaw's problem is totally misleading. Despair should reflect why she/he is indeed being moderated in the first place!
Admin
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Re: crown lifting .......... your definition please

Postby arborlad » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:01 pm

It''s been stated several times that work to the tree can only be done from the tree owners land, whose opinion is this?

There are almost always options available.
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