Our tall tree fell down

Our tall tree fell down

Postby sawtooth » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:05 pm

Hi, our 90ft Scots Pine tree fell down and smashed our garage and contents to smithereens!

The tree was under a TPO but because its my tree I presume that its my responsibility to get rid of it although the insurance company should meet the cost.

Do you think I will be able to keep back some of the wood when the tree surgeons come to take it away? I don't have a wood burner but I plan to get one.

Before
http://thumbsnap.com/0OWCkQVG

After
http://thumbsnap.com/D6XTjjhY

http://thumbsnap.com/MdeFUaZM

http://thumbsnap.com/R1MFvi1o

http://thumbsnap.com/QKOOPjwl

http://thumbsnap.com/LEA3op6E

http://thumbsnap.com/bkPhFpir
sawtooth
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:56 am

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby MacadamB53 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:32 pm

Hi sawtooth,

Am I being a bit dim? (it has been known...)

YOUR tree has fallen down in YOUR garden and you think you might not be able to keep some?!?

Of course you can - it is YOUR tree.

Kind regards, Mac
PS If your car broke down on your drive it'd still be your car...
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6033
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby sawtooth » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:37 pm

I'm not sure how things work with regard to the insurance company and tree surgeons.

I thought perhaps if the insurance company pay a tree surgeon directly to remove the tree that I might no longer have claim to it. Thinking you cant receive a service to remove the tree (under insurance) and yet still keep the tree. If you see what I mean.
sawtooth
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Brainsey » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:00 am

As long as the tree surgeon got paid, I very much doubt that he'd care where the 'removed' tree ended up.

I'd be more concerned about getting the garage rebuilt and the drive properly paved!

BTW, why are they called surgeons? There's nowt delicate about wielding a chain saw.
Brainsey
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Treeman » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:24 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi sawtooth,

Am I being a bit dim? (it has been known...)

YOUR tree has fallen down in YOUR garden and you think you might not be able to keep some?!?

Of course you can - it is YOUR tree.


Kind regards, Mac
PS If your car broke down on your drive it'd still be your car...



Its not quite that simple tough.

The contract to remove the tree is between the contractor and the insurance company.

Standard terms is to remove the tree from site with all arising's becoming the property of the contractor. The contractors price might well include a discount for any salvageable timber.

If the timber is staying on site the contractor needs to know how much and in what form. Turning the wood into something the average domestic can split takes time, fuel and wear and tear on kit.

Worst case scenario for the contractor is he gets to spend a couple of hours processing the timber but not keep it.

The OP needs to tell the insurance company that they wish to keep the timber but require it to be cut to suitable lengths.
Treeman
 
Posts: 3993
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 am

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby MacadamB53 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:37 am

Hi Brainsey,

BTW, why are they called surgeons? There's nowt delicate about wielding a chain saw.

There was nowt delicate about medical surgery either until recent times... (queasy emoticon)

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6033
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Brainsey » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:15 am

Treeman wrote:The contract to remove the tree is between the contractor and the insurance company.

Standard terms is to remove the tree from site with all arising's becoming the property of the contractor.

Playing devil's advocate a bit:
The tree does not belong to the insurance company nor, as far as I know, do they pay the tree owner for the "written off" tree - in the same way that an insurance company would pay an owner if his car was written off when ownership of the car would transfer to the insurance company.

How then does the insurance company acquire the 'right' to enter into a contract that gives away something owned by the insured? Standard terms, no doubt. Standard terms which are not necessarily in the best interest of the insured.

Yes, the insured (OP) will need to tell his insurer how he wants the tree dealt with - but as the service provider how much better it would be if the insurer asked their client how he wanted the tree disposed of.
Brainsey
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Brainsey » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:18 am

MacadamB53 wrote:There was nowt delicate about medical surgery either until recent times... (queasy emoticon)

Kind regards, Mac

True, but they didn't use rapidly moving bicycle chains with teeth. :!:
Brainsey
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Treeman » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:56 am

Brainsey wrote:Playing devil's advocate a bit:
The tree does not belong to the insurance company nor, as far as I know, do they pay the tree owner for the "written off" tree - in the same way that an insurance company would pay an owner if his car was written off when ownership of the car would transfer to the insurance company.

How then does the insurance company acquire the 'right' to enter into a contract that gives away something owned by the insured? Standard terms, no doubt. Standard terms which are not necessarily in the best interest of the insured.

Yes, the insured (OP) will need to tell his insurer how he wants the tree dealt with - but as the service provider how much better it would be if the insurer asked their client how he wanted the tree disposed of.


How do you know that?

I accept that before the incident the tree didn't belong to the insurer but as soon as you make a claim you accept the insurers conditions in your schedule.

Insurance companies like a "one time fix", to that end they condition the policy so that they can achieve this and that's how they acquire the right.

The comparison between the insurances doesn't bear comparison, one is for the replacement cost of a vehicle and the other is repair and removal of debris.

The insured doesn't tell the insurer how the job is to be done, that's at the discretion of the insurer. To use your car example the insured cant tell the insurer where to sell the written off car for the best deal, it becomes the property of the insurer and is theirs to dispose of.
Treeman
 
Posts: 3993
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 am

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Brainsey » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:35 am

Devil's advocate wig on again:

Treeman wrote:I accept that before the incident the tree didn't belong to the insurer but as soon as you make a claim you accept the insurers conditions in your schedule.

That's what I meant; before the incident the tree did not belong to the insurance company.

Treeman wrote:Insurance companies like a "one time fix", to that end they condition the policy so that they can achieve this and that's how they acquire the right.

Exactly my point: the insurance company acquires a right using "standard terms" in their contract but unlike my example of the car they do not make any payment in order for the tree to become their property and theirs to dispose of.

Treeman wrote:The comparison between the insurances doesn't bear comparison, one is for the replacement cost of a vehicle and the other is repair and removal of debris.

The comparison was on how the insurance company acquires the right to decide how the insured's asset is disposed of. In one case the insurance company 'buys' the asset by making a pay out, in the other it does not; it simply assumes the disposal right in its Ts&Cs.

Treeman wrote:The insured doesn't tell the insurer how the job is to be done, that's at the discretion of the insurer. To use your car example the insured cant tell the insurer where to sell the written off car for the best deal, it becomes the property of the insurer and is theirs to dispose of.

Again, that's my point - the insured should have a say in how the job is done.
In no way did my car example say that the insured could tell the insurance company where to sell the written off car. The point was clearly that in the car case the insurance company makes a pay out, becomes the owner of the car and of course can then decide how to dispose of it.
Brainsey
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Treeman » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:48 am

Brainsey wrote:Again, that's my point - the insured should have a say in how the job is done.



Nope, the insurer writes the schedule so that they have the whip hand, they don't have to make a payment for the tree for it to become their property.

They aren't insuring the tree, they are covering the damage it did. If the remainder of the tree has any value it becomes the property of the insurer the same as any materials with a disposal cost implication.

Insurance companies often "entertain" the whims of their insured where possible but giving them a say in how the job is done is financial folly. Unless handled properly customers can be vague and will change their minds several times before, during the execution and after a job which ramps up costs to the open ended.
Treeman
 
Posts: 3993
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 am

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Brainsey » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:16 pm

Treeman wrote:
Brainsey wrote:Again, that's my point - the insured should have a say in how the job is done.


I reused your words when I wrote "how the job is done." It would have been better if I had said "what is done"

In this case and very broadly it would be along the lines of:

Cut up the tree into suitable lengths for splitting, stack it there.
Clear the site of ruined garage. Insured to choose what if any items in the garage are retained.
Rebuild garage.

Unless handled properly insurance companies will try to manage the work to their advantage rather than striving to achieve the best outcome for their customer.
Brainsey
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Treeman » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:23 pm

Brainsey wrote:
Treeman wrote:
Brainsey wrote:Again, that's my point - the insured should have a say in how the job is done.


I reused your words when I wrote "how the job is done." It would have been better if I had said "what is done"

In this case and very broadly it would be along the lines of:

Cut up the tree into suitable lengths for splitting, stack it there.
Clear the site of ruined garage. Insured to choose what if any items in the garage are retained.
Rebuild garage.

Unless handled properly insurance companies will try to manage the work to their advantage rather than striving to achieve the best outcome for their customer.



What is done is dictated by the terms of the schedule, the insured agrees to that when they buy the policy
Treeman
 
Posts: 3993
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:02 am

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby Brainsey » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:58 pm

Treeman wrote:What is done is dictated by the terms of the schedule, the insured agrees to that when they buy the policy

Indeed; but there are far too many people who, having bought their house insurance purely on the basis of price, find out only when they make a claim what terms they have signed up to.

Entirely their 'fault' of course but I still take issue with such terms being written into the contract in the first place.
Brainsey
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:03 pm

Re: Our tall tree fell down

Postby arborlad » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:47 pm

Brainsey wrote:
BTW, why are they called surgeons? There's nowt delicate about wielding a chain saw.



On the contrary, if you see a good arborist at work, it can seem like poetry in motion. Admittedly in this scenario, there's little in the way of 'surgery', but still great care has to be excercised to prevent further damage to the contents of the garage, but also to those carrying out the work and there equipment.

'.........wielding a chain saw' is rather an emotive term for what is usually a very delicate and precise operation, with great skill attached to it.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7386
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 
Next

Return to Trees

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests