illegally cut trees

Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:15 am

I certainly wont be allowing the contractor to do any of the planting or removing...when he says he will do everything he can to sort it out and gives me his insurance details I assume that means the insurance company will deal with the quote/s from reputable tree companies and agree or argue with those quotes. I will point out to them that if they drag it out too long it will be a claim for a year's loss of amenity as no one will be able to plant till next autumn if its not done by March.
But under no circumstances will I allow the contractor to touch one twig in my garden. I have seen his work! Even if he thought my fence and gate belonged to the farmer, he smashed it! He took no care of what he thought was the farmers property so I dont trust him to take any care of mine. He has no arbocultural qualifications to understand what trees to plant, how close, how to best look after etc. I know the fight now will be with the insurers over what I want done and what they will pay for. The young man helping the contractor told me the contractor did have a sketch of the trees to come down...but it appears he was under pressure to get the job done quickly and rushed it...ie agreed to do the work in 2 weeks when it was a 4 week job. Thats the impression I get.
Meanwhile the 10 foot stumps Id been hoping to leave in place (while new trees grew up and around) seem to be dying. The foliage is starting to turn brown so the idea that they would bush up looks unlikely.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:01 pm

Suprise suprise. I had a letter from the contractors insurers today...not their responsibility, its the farmer. I rang them and said their client had emailed me apolgising, saying he had made a mistake and promising to rectify it, with his insurance details. They said it was just an apology and not admitting liability! He sent me that email so he could get the trees burnt and finish the job for which the farmer was paying him for! I feel duped. I have lots of pictures and vidoes but the trees themselves were quite dramatic piled up. The farmer wanted them out of his way so his orchard vehicles can get past and the area didnt get flooded...the contractor probably wouldnt have got paid for his job till the trees were burnt. So they sent me that email, got me off their back and burnt the trees and now will both try and wash their hands of it. I have emailed and texted the farmer to tell him the buck is being passed to him and I need his insurance details as well....he said he would talk to the contractor and get back to me tomorrow. Its going to end up in court, I can see that....and a long dragged out battle over whats gone,w ho is responsible and what should be paid.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby Roblewis » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:28 pm

Go to the insurance ombudsman - The contractor made the mistake and it is against him the claim rests tell his insurers that you refute their denial and to think again
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:41 pm

Roblewis wrote:Go to the insurance ombudsman
it's actually the Financial Ombudsman Service and the process to follow is to contact FOS if you remain disatisfied AFTER you've exhausted the insurance company's own complaints procedure - contacting FOS before you've even lodged a complaint with the insurance company will be a waste of time (other than the general guidance they'll give you about making a complaint...)

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby ukmicky » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:40 pm

Why would the OP be making a complaint about someone's else's insurance company . They are not contractually liable to the OP. The people who are liable for OPs losses are the contractor ,his client or both.

It does not matter to the OP if the contractors insurance does not cover any losses caused by his mistake. The contractor ,his client are the ones who need to worry about insurance or they will have to pay out themselves from their own pockets .

If you your self have no insurance with legal protection then you will need to go see a solicitor if you want compensation and they will not pay. (maybe a no win no fee type) and you let the solicitor decide who to sue. They both will most likely be named if neither will accept responsibility and the court can be left to decide who is to blame .You may find a court with find both parties liable.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:54 pm

Hi ukmicky,

Why would the OP be making a complaint about someone's else's insurance company

I thought the same, but at least I've provided the OP with an overview of the complaint-to-FOS process.
hopefully, if the OP follows this or Roblewis' advice someone will put them straight either way.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby arsie » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:34 am

Well as I said at the outset, your claim (as the 1st party) is against the farmer (the 2nd party). His subcontractor is his problem; but your claim is against the farmer, who was responsible for commissioning work that trashed your trees. It has been complicated now by you trying to sue the subcontractor direct, encouraged by the farmer - who is probably well aware of the actual legal situation. Now the waters have been greatly muddied; but the subcontractor's solicitors have kicked the ball back on the pitch, so to speak. You now need to go back to square one and - I suggest - get your solicitor to write to the farmer making him 100% responsible. His subcontractor is his problem not yours. The farmer cut your trees down in the eyes of the law. Who he hired and directed or misdirected is irrelevant to the issue. He cut your trees down.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:31 am

Sometimes people forget that you ask for advice because you are out of your depth...and trying to do what is best. I didnt immediately go to solicitors because I have been led to believe that if you start involving solicitors before trying to seek alternatives then you dont look good if and when the situation ends up in court. Your look like you wanted the fight. I didnt.
I doubt a court will look badly on me for asking both the farmer and the contractor who is going to accept responsibility before they go ahead and burn the evidence...and taking their joint word for it. It is clear they both led me down this path...it looks bad on them, not me.
I have not muddied any waters because at the same time as involving the contractors insurance I let the frmer know that I would also be sending himthe quotes as I did nto know who to hold responsibile and I believed their would be a dispute between the farmer and the contractor over this. I was at the initial stages of informing all parties.....so I havent really dont anything wrong yet (Arsie).
Please remember when you send posts being a bit hard on people trying to wade through this sort of stuff...Im 53, I have no legal training, I have a million other worries like my dad is dying...and this is one nightmare I could do without. It is 4am and I cant sleep because Im so worried about it all...and terrified about what I know is going to end up a long legal battle that could end up costing me a lot of money and time...Ive been here before.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby mr sheen » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:21 am

charabang wrote:Im 53, I have no legal training, I have a million other worries like my dad is dying...and this is one nightmare I could do without. It is 4am and I cant sleep because Im so worried about it all...and terrified about what I know is going to end up a long legal battle that could end up costing me a lot of money and time...Ive been here before.


.??????....Time to put a few trees into perspective then??! and decide.....

Long drawn out battle that you KNOW you will have to throw money at......or.......
Time to move on...no real harm done to me or my loved ones and my dying father needs my attention ( the trees are gone and cannot be brought back)

Some on the forum like to fuel other people's disputes for all sorts of reasons, one of which is that it provides ongoing entertainment on the forum. Sadly disputes are soul destroying, stressful powerfully negative influences that can spiral out of control as can be seen from many threads. Life is short and you have the choice of stopping now and moving on.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby Roblewis » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:34 am

Do not worry about some people - the contractors insurers loss adjusters will normally make a rejection of claims of this nature as first call. As the actual malfeasor the contractor has to accept responsibility and then sue his client, should the contract terms and conditions with his client permit. In construction it is actually the norm for the client to contractually place all liabilities onto the contractor even where he himself may be at fault. A tribunal may then be required to allocate any changes.

In your case I do regard the response as a try on. Write again detailing the facts of what the contractor did in reaching over into what was a neighbouring land and destroying the trees. State that should they wish to reject your claim for the negligence of their insured party then you would like a copy of their complaints procedure. An Independent Loss Adjuster may be a possible way forward see http://www.ilaa.org.uk/
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby arsie » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:20 am

Sorry charabang I did not mean to blow my own trumpet or stir someone else's fight. There are more important things. Enjoy what you can with your father and try not to stress about this relatively unimportant problem. +1 Roblewis' sound advice.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby COGGY » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:37 am

So sorry charabang that you are having such a very hard time. Try not to worry too much. You can afford to take a couple of weeks to think it over. Often that results in a strong feeling of the way forward. It is always best not to rush forward without thought. I am sure arsie only meant to help you. He is not known for being unkind.
It is only a few trees but nevertheless important trees.

Kind regards
Coggy
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:23 pm

thanks all
I will try and get it in perspective, you are right, but I am in garden working most of the day so difficult to forget about.
Today the farmer gave me insurance details...insurance company seem to agree it will be their liability and then they seek damages from contractor. So we will see what happens and if I get another 'get lost' letter from them.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:23 pm

I feel stupid! I just got off the phone from farmers insurance. They are sending a liability assessor to work out who is responsible...but during the conversation he let slip that the farmer had gone to his local insurance office when this happened...he knew he could be held responsible, he knew his insurance might have to be involved...and he brushed it off while talking to me and saying he could plant a few trees. It was only when I said I wanted a tree company to do it and then he started telling to to get the insurance details off the contractor. When I said dont burn the evidence until I had an admission of liability he got the contractor to send me an email saying he was sorry for his mistake. I feel foolish.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby arsie » Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:58 pm

I wouldn't worry about the tree remains having been burned no one is actually denying the act - the stumps are evidence. Don't feel bad - you are the innocent victim, nothing to be ashamed of there, quite the opposite.

And, in the words of the song, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear ...
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