illegally cut trees

Re: illegally cut trees

Postby COGGY » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:51 pm

Hi

Did the police give you an incident number? I believe you should have this. Have you asked the police to visit? Thirty-five trees cut down in error is a massive mistake.

My last post was written while on the phone and without seeing your photos.

Kind regards
Coggy
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:23 am

Hi charabang,

they said as it was a mistake it is not criminal damage as it was not done with intent.

whoever you spoke to either doesn't know what constitutes criminal damage or was dodging getting involved.

whether an act is criminal damage is relatively clear because this has been pretty well defined:

"A person who without lawful excuse destroys or damages any property belonging to another intending to destroy or damage any such property or being reckless as to whether any such property would be destroyed or damaged shall be guilty of an offence."

so intent IS NOT REQUIRED - damage caused by recklessness is as much criminal damage as a calculated event, eg a guy who ploughs his car into a wall whilst drunk or speeding would be found guilt of causing criminal damage (and so would your neighboGur/contractor) because his actions satisfy the definition.

I'd get back in touch with plod.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:15 am

Rang the police again this morning....they say it is not criminal damage because I said the farmer says it was a mistake. I told them he oculd be lying and it wasnt their place to decide if the farmer did it by mistake or intentionally. They wee adamant. I should have just rung and said someone has cut down all my trees and not given them any other information. They did give me a reference number to say I called but that is it. That was a very frustrating call.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:00 am

Hi charabang,

does the contractor have insurance or not? that is what needs to be established in order for you to know what action to take.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby Roblewis » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:27 pm

Write to the contractor and formally request his Public Liability and Professional Indemnity Insurance and inform him that a claim is to be made. Pass the information to your Household insurers. Most policies do normally cover garden plants and furniture so check this out again - there is likely to be a limit to the damages. Now is the best time to plant many trees.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby APC » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:28 pm

is the land the trees were felled on registered as a garden?
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby COGGY » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:30 pm

Hi Charabang

Phone the police again and say that you are requesting a visit. If they refuse to come then ask how you can make a complaint. It is not for them to decide whether it was intentional or not. A court would not make that decision based on the farmer's word. You need to remain calm and determined.

I spent 93 minutes on the phone to our Bank last week,requesting a letter for a simple matter, which was refused continually. Eventually by remaining calm and insistent and saying I wished to make a complaint I spoke to the supervisor who agreed to send the letter, which should not have been refused. She also paid me £40 compensation plus cost of phone calls. I would prefer to have had the letter sent without the fuss but I was determined to have the letter.

Kind regards
Coggy
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby COGGY » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:36 pm

Hi Charabang

Nothingtodowithme wrote

In your position I would be demanding reinstatement of all 35 of the trees.


+ 1
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:40 pm

Rang police third time....control adamant it is civil matter....not getting anywhere and starting to sound like a mad woman.

Had arborist round to look at damage, whats been lost, value...and ideas to move forward.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby span » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:48 pm

charabang wrote:Rang police third time....control adamant it is civil matter....not getting anywhere and starting to sound like a mad woman.

Had arborist round to look at damage, whats been lost, value...and ideas to move forward.


Phone plod again and ask to speak to duty inspector.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby arborlad » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:10 pm

charabang wrote:I am usually in the garden most of the day with my dogs. That afternoon I had nipped out to the nearest town. .



Unless there was some collusion between the farmer, the contractor and some third party reporting on your movements, I think it is highly unlikely that this is anything other than a mistake. The threads that normally start with - "While I was at work/on holiday............" usually show a degree of premeditation and malicious intent, which seems to be completely absent from this one.

The remains of the trees look to be healthy enough with a bit of TLC to give you the best chance of getting your screen back in the shortest time, had they been cut lower that wouldn't be the case - what does your arborist say?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:07 pm

70/80 foot trees cut down to 10 foot stumps...not likely to survive. Protected middle row of western red cedar and another row of rawsons. Its not so much the screening as the canopy feel from below that has gone...being enclosed in a woodland whereas now its all open and exposed...there is nothing ten feet up and above, just daylight where I had trees. Its had to explain. Just a mess.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby jdfi » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:12 pm

So six months ago the farmer took his tree surgeon around your land and pointed out trees that he wanted to have cut down in case they fell and damaged his new apple trees?

They then see you go to the next town for your once a week trip out, then the trees get felled?

If you were at home youdve heard the chainsaw and rushed out to see what had happened.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby charabang » Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:49 am

Not quite like that.....he showed contractor around his rented 100 acres....my garden sits at the edge of this 100 acres. Most of the conifers cut around this 100 acres were on the rented farm land. The farmer never came into my garden but would have maybe passed the back of it or driven round pointing out conifers everywhere. My trees even at 70 foot could not reach the apple trees even if they fell directly in their direction, so it wasnt in the farmers interest to target them....I think he just did a blanket sweep with his arm of the area without paying attention to the fact that one set of trees werent on the rented farm land. I dont believe it was malicious, I believe it was a very negligent mistake, with no care taken by either the farmer or the contractor. At worst he didnt check which trees were his and assumed they were all on the rented land...maybe instructing the contractor to cut them down 6 months ago. At best he didnt mean my trees and the contractor picked the wrong set of 35 trees.
He wouldnt really know I was out...the trees/garden are one acre down the rear of the house and my van is parked at the front of the house. I doubt the farmer even knows which of the 3 driveways at the front are mine. Its difficult to tell if Im out or in because my van is parked behind a 6 foot solid wooden gate. The front is on a busy B road so also unlikely anyone parked out front to watch when I went out...too calculated for trees which didnt really affect his apple trees I think.
A very, very big mistake but one that has to be rectified some how.
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Re: illegally cut trees

Postby COGGY » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:06 am

Hi

If the farmer or contractor were negligently driving along the road, did not see your vehicle cos they were not interested, drove into it and it was subsequently a write-off, would your attitude be any different? Unless you come on strong, I do not mean rude and shouting, just strong, the farmer/contractor, will not be concerned to put the matter right to your satisfaction. The emphasis from their side will be to do as little as possible.

As a start please take the advice given above by Span
Phone plod again and ask to speak to duty inspector.


If you only spoke to your Insurance Company by phone, then write to them, not making excuses for the farmer/contractor, simply stating the facts. The action may not have been maliciously but if not it was incompetence and negligence. Either way you are entitled to have the matter put right to your satisfaction. Either the farmer or the contractor needs to claim from their insurance company and it would appear that you need yoour insurance company to enforce this. Hence you need in the first instance a visit from Plod.

If the mistake/negligence had been yours, what would have been your reaction when the farmer visited you? I do not believe you would have brushed it off as he appears to have done.

Apart from anything else, and I am not underestimating your feelings, the value of your house has surely been lowered by the loss.

Kind regards
Coggy
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