Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permission

Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby clairlybel » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:10 pm

Hi Mac, we've owned the house since January 2011. We have had landscapers and gardeners out to look at the garden, most recently in mid-November last year and to date noone has said anything about the tree being unmanageable, and neither had the neighbours. If anyone had, we would have gotten someone out to look at it. Whenever we have a problem with the house I will always research, ask for recommendations and then action, the garden would not have been any different. I suppose common sense dictates that trees need to be attended to, but us not being very green fingered didn't think that anything needed to be done to it. It feels to me like the neighbour decided he was fed up of our tree blocking light to his garden, and rather than actually talk to us about it, he has lied and now we've ended up in the position we are in. Can you suggest what kind of independent assessor and how we would go about finding one? Thank you for your advice
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby arborlad » Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:53 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:you don't mention how long you've owned (and not attended to) the tree...

Kind regards, Mac



Trees don't need attending to - people need trees attending to.

There are billions of trees that have never seen the hand of man throughout their entire lifespan.


Any chance of a photo?
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby clairlybel » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:21 pm

aborlad it won't let me upload a photo sorry, all my pics are more than the 256kb limit
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:36 pm

Hi clairlybel,

the site's storage quota for images, etc. has been filled to capacity so none of us can upload even the smallest of files.

the workaround is to upload one's images to a 3rd party site (I use tinypic.com) and paste a copy of the URL on here.

hope that makes sense...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby clairlybel » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:33 pm

Hi Mac, do these links work?
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2z824nk ... NppW_lX4e0
http://tinypic.com/r/w2budt/8
http://tinypic.com/r/1osnj4/8
All taken from our garden. 2x pics are of our willow on the left and their conifers on the right. 1x pic is from the back of our house point towards the back end of the garden. Shows it points into our garden not the neighbours
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby COGGY » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:44 pm

Hi Clairybel

That is truly dreadful. I feel for you. Hopefully a tree expert will be along to give their opinion for the future.

Regards Coggy
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby Janieb » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:53 am

That's not pol larding, it's a massacre :shock:
"I prefer rogues to imbeciles, because they sometimes take a rest" Alexandre Dumas (fils)
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby stufe35 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:25 pm

Hmm that is not what I understand pol larding to be ! Cue the tree experts.

The problem you have here is it's your word against his.

He says you gave permission, you say you didn't...no witnesses. There aren't even any witnesses to the act, so you can't be sure who did it.

Court action expensive and risky.

This is where you learn that the legal system is for the very poor...who get free legal aid...and the very rich to whom huge legal bills make no difference to their day to day life and can afford to persue a point out of principle.

The rest of us in the real world have to weigh up risking of losing our life savings and livelihood against waiting a couple of years for a tree to grow back. (If indeed it will after that treatment)
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:24 pm

Hi arborlad,

Trees don't need attending to - people need trees attending to

yup - not sure why you felt this needed mentioning though...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby arsie » Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:28 pm

Image
This is one of numerous images you can find by searching for 'pollarding' on the Internet
(pol larding seems to be something to do with roasting meats!)

Your willow seems to have been cut back to what is essentially a tree stump. Perhaps that is normal for willow. Nearly ten years ago our neighbour had crown surgery on his 30m willow and it is splendid now. We pollard our Norwegian Maples every year so they are just a head high trunk with new growth 3m each year which is always cut back. It would be handy if you have some 'before' pictures of the willow.

While I agree with Stu's words possibly you can get the neighbour to atone for his (or his agent's) over-zealous pollarding. The first thing would be a second opinion from another tree surgeon. After the fact is not ideal but I am sure they will have seen this sort of thing before and will know willows. A hardy but thirsty tree. If they have succeeded in killing yours I would sue. In no way can they say you agreed - to have your tree killed :roll:

Mac summarised a possible strategy quite well earlier I recall. Depends on the neighbour's attitude though.
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby TO » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:52 pm

Hi

What they have done is topping and lopping which is different to pollarding.

Unfortunately all to often the advice given on this site to those affected by neighbours trees is to just go onto the land when the tree owner is at work, on holiday etc. and hack the tree down without consent.

TO
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby arsie » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:21 pm

TO wrote:What they have done is topping and lopping which is different to pollarding.

Expert advice. How is it different (apart from the obvious that we can all see)? Will the willow grow back?

TO wrote:Unfortunately all to often the advice given on this site to those affected by neighbours trees is to just go onto the land when the tree owner is at work, on holiday etc. and hack the tree down without consent.

Almost all advice that I see on this site is on the side of being law abiding. We tend to see threads started by those who have suffered from the behaviour that you describe. Like this one.
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby clairlybel » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Glad the pics worked!

Thanks for the sympathy Coggy

Janieb, yes that's what we said as well!

arsie, thank you for that picture. By the looks of that after pollarding you are supposed to keep some branches on the tree, but we have none left. As you said it is basically a stump, a long stump. Someone at work has recommended a tree surgeon friend, so will be calling them tomorrow to come round and give an opinion

These are some pics that have the willow before in. Apologies for the different angles, they were taken as we were doing an extension / landscaping the garden or once we had had the garden landscaped
http://tinypic.com/r/2z6xyxz/8
http://tinypic.com/r/2d2erg1/8
http://tinypic.com/r/20rwdqt/8
Can you see it is mainly bending into our garden?

TO - what exactly is topping and lopping please? I've just been searching online, and it really doesn't sound very good e.g. http://www.leics.gov.uk/topping_and_lopping-2.pdf

Thanks all so much for your advice
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby TO » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:00 am

Hi

arsie wrote:Expert advice. How is it different (apart from the obvious that we can all see)? Will the willow grow back?

BS 3998:2010 Tree work - Recommendations
3.21 pollarding
cutting a tree so as to encourage formation of numerous branches arising from the same height on a main stem or principal branches
NOTE 1 This process is initially carried out on trees that have not yet reached maturity. The form of the tree can then be maintained by cycles of cutting. This is not the same as topping (3.28).

3.28 topping
removal of most or all of the crown of a mature tree by indiscriminately cutting through the main stem(s) NOTE This is not the same as pollarding (3.21).

Pollarding is a management practice usually undertaken to produce various sized crops of timber/feed or both. It is commenced when the tree is young and continued on a regular cycle.

Topping is bad pactice, creates numerous problems, and done by those who don't know any better.

Will it live, maybe, but it's not exactly the tree it was before.

TO
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Re: Neighbours have chopped down our tree without our permis

Postby arborlad » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:02 am

What you've got, or rather had, is a lapsed pollard - a tree that was previously pollarded but allowed to grow into a mature tree again. The recent work is of poor quality and would not be considered in accordance with good arboricultural practice.

The 'before and after' from arsie, better represent lopping and topping, which is generally frowned upon within the industry.

The tree does need some work to improve it but after that, as an established tree, it will grow back quicker than anything you can replace it with, but you may not like its appearance in the process.
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