Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my consent

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby tone » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:36 pm

mr sheen wrote:You can only find out whether they acted beyond their remit by checking the agreements you have with them, we on here have no idea whether they overstepped the mark or they acted within the remit of their legal contract with you. No point getting into an argument with them before you are fully aware of your position. Our opinions relating to the tree and your privacy are completely irrelevant to your legal position. Only you can find that out by consulting your legal documents.

However, we own a number of leasehold flats that come with an inherent right for the freeholder and/or Mgt Co to take whatever action they deem necessary to protect the fabric of the building for the benefit of all. (Which is why I replied to your post).


Hi Mr Sheen,

I fully understand and I can see your point here. As you own flats, would you trim a tree that was not part of the communal area without first contacting the leaseholder? It would be only logical and respectful, unless you deliberately trimmed it without consent to make money. If you don't mind me asking, would you do sort of a thing as I know having a management company or being a freeholder, you're out to make as much money as you can from the leaseholder. I will check my documents, however the grammar is very complicated and hard to understand.

Here is part of the lease I received from Hamilton King and the information below was highlighted. It's very hard to understand, but nowhere does it state that they should carry out work with or without leaseholders consent or even a courtesy contact. I think I have a case here. Do you agree?

THE LESSEE HEREBY COVENANTS with the Lessor as follows:
(b) To pay all rates taxes assessments charges impositions and outgoings which may at any time during the term hereby granted be assessed charged or imposed upon the Flat or the owner or occupier in respect thereof and in the event of any rates taxes assessments charges impositions and outgoings being assessed charged or imposed in respect of the Building of which the Flat forms part to pay the proper proportionate part of the whole of such rates taxes assessments charges impositions and outgoings as attributable to the Flat.

(d) To pay all costs charges and expenses (including Solicitor's costs and Surveyors fees).

(k) To keep the garden and lawns edged green on the plan hereto attached clean neat and tidy and also to keep the fences marked "T" on the said plan in good repair and condition.


Regards,
Tone
tone
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby COGGY » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:26 pm

Hi

I appreciate that you are upset. However it is not true to say that all landlords are out to make as much money as possible. There are many landlords (and I include ourselves in this) who wish to maintain and keep a property whilst giving value for money to their tenants. Of course all landlords need to make a profit, otherwise there would be no point to the exercise. As home owners most of us make considerable profit from our own homes over the years. This enables many to "down size" when appropriate. Please do not lump all landlords in one group. There are good and bad in any section of society. If in the future you come to sell your property are you likely to say "Oh I will sell for the amount I paid for this property". Of course you would not. These comments do not detract from my sympathy with your position. i would be annoyed. The best advise given is to read the papers included with your title deeds. Kind regards Coggy
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby Collaborate » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:27 pm

The passage you have quoted doesn't I think relate to what they have charged you for. that reads to me more like a responsibility to pay towards local taxes or similar charges.

You will have much more to your contractual relationship with the management company than you have posted here. Time to read your lease from top to bottom, and any other documents that regulate your relationship as lessor with the management company.

Had you made it clear at the outset that you were a lessee and it was the management company who was asking you to pay, my reply would have been different.
Collaborate
 
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:17 am

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby tone » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:50 pm

Collaborate wrote:The passage you have quoted doesn't I think relate to what they have charged you for. that reads to me more like a responsibility to pay towards local taxes or similar charges.

You will have much more to your contractual relationship with the management company than you have posted here. Time to read your lease from top to bottom, and any other documents that regulate your relationship as lessor with the management company.

Had you made it clear at the outset that you were a lessee and it was the management company who was asking you to pay, my reply would have been different.


As all of you seem to be landlords or part of and I'm sure I'll get biased answers here, but all I'd like to know is this question. Should they have contacted me before they carried out the work to let me know that the tree needed trimming. If so, I could have done it myself or hired my own tree surgeon. That's all really. Can somebody please answer me this?

I appreciate all your help here and like you all said I have to refer to my lease, which I did and nowhere does it state that the landlord or a management agency should or should not contact me before any work to be carried out. A few weeks ago, we all received a letter from Hamilton King management agency to let us know that works needed to be carried out to our building and that we should hire our own contractors if need be. This seems fair and so they contacted us, so why wasn't I personally contacted, this is my question. It seems they messed up here and so they need to pay for it and not me.

Also, I'm not saying all landlords are bad, far from it as our previous landlord was brilliant and was not money hungry. I appreciate landlords need to make a profit, but please don't rip us off. It has to be a 'reasonable' cost as laid out in the Leasehold Advisory website. The problem landlord is Southern Land Securities and Hamilton King management agency, these guys are a major pain in the butt and rip-off merchants.

Any leaseholder reading this, keep well away from Southern Land Securities and Hamilton King. If Southern Land Securities recently bought the freehold to your flat, immediately set up a Right To Manage company as it is quite cheap and you have management responsibilities like getting cheaper buildings insurance or even better buy the freehold if it is not too expensive. We made a mistake of not buying our freehold and it was quite cheap too. We were all busy and forgot about it and then it was too late. Steer clear of them as you'll get nothing but problems and is bad for your health too. Avoid them like the plague. You have been warned.
Last edited by tone on Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tone
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby Collaborate » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:55 pm

I'm not sure how you work out that we're all landlords. Bizarre.

I suggest that you ask them to spell out by what contractual obligation are you required to reimburse them for the cost of the work. You are certainly not responsible at common law.
Collaborate
 
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:17 am

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in garden without consent

Postby tone » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:57 pm

Collaborate wrote:I'm not sure how you work out that we're all landlords. Bizarre.

I suggest that you ask them to spell out by what contractual obligation are you required to reimburse them for the cost of the work. You are certainly not responsible at common law.


Sorry Collaborate, I think most people replying may be landlords or rent flats, although can't be sure, it was just speculation. Accept my apologies. I'm not here to offend anyone.
tone
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:15 pm

Hi tone,

Accept my apologies

will you calm down if I do? :)

what does the £3k bill cover?

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6024
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby tone » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:51 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi tone,

Accept my apologies

will you calm down if I do? :)

what does the £3k bill cover?

Kind regards, Mac


Hi Mac, I'm just frustrated with my management agency and landlord, that's all as I'm not made of money. The reason why I might not feel calm is because nobody has really answered my question and that's whether the management agency can carry out individual works without contacting the leaseholder first and explaining what needs to be done. Not sure if anyone here knows this.

The 3k is for extortionate buildings insurance over £1600, various small works carried out (without consent again), management cost, management fees (whatever that is), ground rent, tree trimming, etc. This is a rip-off, don't you think. Do you know if we are legally obliged to pay for this extortionate amount, except for ground rent of course, which we are legally obliged to pay. I suppose we can dispute the 3k. I had to edit this to remove exact cost just in case I have to go to court.

Regards,
Tone
tone
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby mr sheen » Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:28 pm

It would have been polite for them to contact you before carrying out works but they didn't.
So your question.....'can' they carry out works without contacting you?must be answered yes because they actually did. 'Should' they have contacted you? Yes it would have been polite. However, legally are they obliged to contact you? Only the deeds or a court Judge can answer that question. A Judge would consider that you are obliged to keep your garden neat and tidy etc etc plus all other contents of the contract and they would show that the tree was not 'neat and tidy' and posed a risk of damage etc etc....all very subjective so who knows who would win??? But the big issue is that you have no real losses and therefore a lawsuit is pointless.

The other issue you have is that they have a catch all clause that you have to pay all costs and charges, so they may have a claim against you if you don't pay.....however you could take a punt on a response that disputes their right to have cut back the tree without giving you the opportunity to carry out the works your self and see what happens.

You could then get a quote for having had the works done yourself and offer to pay that amount only....and see if they take court action.....and if they do....you can always pay at the last minute....but obviously your choice....
Me....I would accept lesson learned and keep my garden neat and tidy well within the boundaries so that life can move on without a big dispute.
mr sheen
 
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby tone » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:27 pm

Hi Mr Sheen,

Thanks for the helpful information, you helped a lot.

Before the tree trimming incident, they took a picture of my entire garden as it is a little messy at the moment as I don't use it, however they contacted me first to warn me about it, so why they couldn't contact me about the tree trimming, as a decent courtesy is because they wanted to make money fair and square, i.e. do the work without consent because somewhere they found a clause in the lease saying they have a right and then bill the sucker, ... I mean bill the leaseholder afterwards. You can probably see foul play here and it's just not fair to make money off me when I could have quite easily fixed it myself without expense or got a tree surgeon to do it more cheaply. I' wasn't going to deny them. They will probably be getting a percentage cut there. There's no justice in this world. Leaseholds should be abolished as it is a very old English law. No other country has this in place.
tone
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby mr sheen » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:53 pm

Ahhhhh....they had contacted you and warned you about your unsatisfactory management of your garden before taking action.
Sorry this changes things. Despite them warning you, you took no action to address the complaint. Chances are then they had the right to take action without further notice. Certainly your argument has been weakened substantially by prior notification that your garden did not meet the requirements of your lease.
mr sheen
 
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby tone » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:41 pm

mr sheen wrote:Ahhhhh....they had contacted you and warned you about your unsatisfactory management of your garden before taking action.
Sorry this changes things. Despite them warning you, you took no action to address the complaint. Chances are then they had the right to take action without further notice. Certainly your argument has been weakened substantially by prior notification that your garden did not meet the requirements of your lease.


Sorry Mr Sheen, I failed to mention that they did not mention my tree in the first correspondence otherwise I would have acted upon it with immediate effect. They only mentioned the state of my garden as at the moment I have pieces of timber, some bricks and a couple of doors in it and I have to say it is a mess as I don't use it. The tree was something they was mentioned afterwards.

Here is that first letter:

"Following a recent site inspection it was noted that the rear garden that is demised to your flat is in a deplorable condition and constitutes a fire hazard due to the fact the fire escape is not easily accessible in the event of an emergency.

The lease is specific in that you are obliged to maintain this area to a satisfactory standard something that you have failed to do and in the circumstances you are requested to have the area cleared and secured as a matter of urgency."

So no mention of that dreaded tree. The garden will be cleared next week.
tone
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby mr sheen » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:07 pm

They didn't need to mention the tree specifically, the content of the letter is all encompassing and they had every right to take immediate action to ensure that any encumbrance to the fire escape was removed and you would find it difficult to justify any complaint about any action they took following a letter like that. A risk assessment had identified that the state of your garden constituted a risk to the health and safety ( and lives) of others ....you are on a loser to complain about them taking action on the grounds of health and safety and with Fire safety there is a risk to life.

You should have acted immediately to rectify the issues...and since you didn't....it is entirely reasonable that the management company acted quickly to ensure the safety of residents. In fact, they would probably have been found to have been negligent if they hadn't acted quickly to reduce all hazards, in the event that there had been an incident resulting in injury (or worse!) to someone.
mr sheen
 
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby tone » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:33 pm

mr sheen wrote:They didn't need to mention the tree specifically, the content of the letter is all encompassing and they had every right to take immediate action to ensure that any encumbrance to the fire escape was removed and you would find it difficult to justify any complaint about any action they took following a letter like that. A risk assessment had identified that the state of your garden constituted a risk to the health and safety ( and lives) of others ....you are on a loser to complain about them taking action on the grounds of health and safety and with Fire safety there is a risk to life.

You should have acted immediately to rectify the issues...and since you didn't....it is entirely reasonable that the management company acted quickly to ensure the safety of residents. In fact, they would probably have been found to have been negligent if they hadn't acted quickly to reduce all hazards, in the event that there had been an incident resulting in injury (or worse!) to someone.


I have 3 pictures that they attached to the letter and none of them were focussed on that tree nor was there any mention of it. They only took picture inside the garden. That tree is at the beginning of the garden. The tree is hardly touching the building as both letters were sent months apart. I was not made aware that the tree needed to be trimmed within that letter and is evident from the information that was written and the pictures that were sent with it. My lease states the word 'permit' and I did not give them permission to permit them in my property. In a nutshell, it's all about making money and this world has gone health and safety mad. Why should they care if I burn in a fire if one ever occurred.
tone
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Re: Tree was trimmed by landlord in my garden without my con

Postby cleo5 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:41 am

Tone,
Judging from all the stuff online about this particular company you are not alone.
Others have also had reason to be disgruntled by their charges.
I don't think anyone should enter your property without first requesting permission (common courtesy) and stating their purpose.
They did not even give you the chance to say that you would carry out the work yourself. (But maybe they didn't want to.)

As for the charge. The cost of tree surgery work can vary enormously according to risk involved/time needed etc etc. What you might do in half an hour might for nothing might cost £500 by an expert.

They can charge whatever they like.
You can write and dispute the cost but some management companies have little or no integrity while others are the opposite

Write by all means and complain. You might get a part refund if you're lucky but otherwise just let it go and hopefully you will soon be no longer with that company.
cleo5
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 
PreviousNext

Return to Trees

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests