single occupancy

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single occupancy

Postby Urge38 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:44 pm

Ok

I am a fairly new landlord, living in the UK

I have an annex next to my house that I rent out.

I have used a letting agent to introduce a tenant (not manage)

Its little more than a studio, it has its own front door, back door and small garden, a bathroom with shower and W/C
small kitching livingroom were there is also a single bed.

one wardrobe and one chest of draws,

Under my advice, the letting agent advertised the annex as single occupancy, the letting agent charges are differant for single or multi occupancy tennets.

my tenant paid the lesser fee for single, the tenant also pays councle tax baised on single person living there.

the tenant is a female (not that it makes any differance)

but when she first moved in, her other half stayed over most nights, I thought he was doing the man thing and was just helping her settle in,
after a week, I asked the letting agent to politly remind her its a single occupancy letting, she wrote the agent three nasty letters qouting the literal terms for occupying, living etc etc out

But it did the trick as he slowed down his stays.

well low and behold its starting back up again, the boyfriend leaves for work from the annex and returns from work to the annex three nights in the 5 day working week

he is said to have his own place, and they both go there over the weekend.

NOT wanting to bore you with to much,

my question is how much is visting, and what is demmed occupying ?????
Urge38
 
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Re: single occupancy

Postby cobdale » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:22 pm

some agencies state that if you spend the greater part of the time at an address that can be construed as living there,but reading your post I don't think you have anything to come back on your tenant with.her boyfriend has his own place and if she wants company that's her right ,if you dident live so close you would ent know if she had different men every night,I don't think there is anything you can do about it,
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Re: single occupancy

Postby Urge38 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:02 pm

thanks for the reply cobdale

I am only told the boyfriend has his own place, I don,t know this for sure,

but if we assume he does, I would have thought that as he was staying regularly overnight at the annex, this could not be seen as visiting.
of course visits are more than welcome, the occasinal over night stay as well, but when does is become more than that????????????????

(a person could own two or more homes, and never live in one or two of them, just because he owns or rents somewhere else, this is not enough to say he lives there.)

and what of my tennency agreement, as two people are occupying the annex, would that not be a breach of contract????

does it not work much like a room in a B&B or hotel!!!! guests welcome, but no overnight visiters????
Urge38
 
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Re: single occupancy

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:20 pm

Hi Urge38,

my question is how much is visting [sic] and what is demmed [sic] occupying ?

can I ask a dumb question - why are you asking?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: single occupancy

Postby COGGY » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:13 pm

Hi

It is the usual practice to inspect property which is let. Whoever is making the inspection has to agree a time and day with the tenant(s). Do you carry out inspections in this case? We have a property which is let and managed by the Agents. Every three months we receive a report on the inspection, detailing who is occupying the property, signs of smoking (non), condition of the property and details of any repairs etc which are needed. My husband then requests permission from the tenants to see if he can sort the problem or if we need to employ someone. The tenants have always been happy for him to enter the property whilst they are at work, but he would not ever do so without their agreement. If we need to employ someone then we notify the tenants and to date they have always been happy for my husband to accompany workman whilst work is carried out. We have had the same tenants for over two years and hope they stay, but the report contains their names and which of them is present at the inspection.

If you do not carry out inspections maybe it would put your mind at rest (or not :roll: ) to arrange to do so.

Kind r3egards
Coggy
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Re: single occupancy

Postby Urge38 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:38 pm

MacadamB53 this is my question indeed
what is occupying ????

take a public convieance, it states on the door, vacant or occupided

even for a few minuets it can be occupied, be it by one person, or if it takes yr fancy!!!!!!!!!!! by two

my point being, what is occupied?????????

me and my tenant have both signed single occupancy tenancy agreement.

this is only my thoughts on the matter, but that implys to me, one a singular person should occupy the property at any one time?? yes ??? no???


ps please forgive my spelling, I try my best :(
Urge38
 
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Re: single occupancy

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:22 pm

Hi Urge38,

let's say I tell you categorically what constitutes "occupying" and what constitutes "visiting" - then what?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: single occupancy

Postby Urge38 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:39 am

Then I would known were I stand at least.

I dont wish to do anything about it as yet.

but if the overnight staying increased. I would know I am or am not in my rights to say something.

I have cctv on my property. Over looking the grounds only.

Proving the visits are not an issue.
Urge38
 
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Re: single occupancy

Postby MacadamB53 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:47 am

Hi Urge38,

I would know I am or am not in my rights to say something.

by "something" do you mean "stop it or you're in trouble"?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: single occupancy

Postby Urge38 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:57 am

No. Not quite.

The situation is this.
the boyfriend lives miles away. A good hour and a half drive.
only he works a few minutes away from my annex.
To them. It makes sence for him to use and stay at my annex.

For me. I now have to people using the small annex. Its was really only built for one person.
I have all my white goods etc to consider.
If we simply say the average life of a microwave is ten years. Two people using it cuts that down by half.
everything from wear and tear on the floors etc etc etc

The boyfriend seems to be getting a free lunch at my expense.
Urge38
 
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Re: single occupancy

Postby MacadamB53 » Sat Jun 14, 2014 1:00 pm

Hi Urge38,

If we simply say the average life of a microwave is ten years. Two people using it cuts that down by half.

that's a very interesting view - how have you arrived at that conclusion?
and is the microwave being used twice as much?

The boyfriend seems to be getting a free lunch at my expense.

if by "getting a free lunch" you mean he's getting use of a microwave and this use means you MIGHT have to replace it sooner than expected, then you're right.
£50 once every 5 years instead of once every 10 years...

Just take a copy of the rental agreement to a sols and ask for some advice.

Kind regards, Mac
PS if you look at this from a different angle - the boyfriend is working = less chance of rent being missed
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Re: single occupancy

Postby COGGY » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:29 pm

I cannot understand the logic that your microwave is used twice as much. Are you suggesting that your tenant cooks for her visitor separately? If you let a property the tenant is free to have visitors, every day if they so wish and give parties as long as they are considerate of the neighbours in the normal way. You are accepting the rent and the tenant is living in the property, which for the majority of us includes having visitors and offering hospitality.

Kind regards
Coggy
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Re: single occupancy

Postby COGGY » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:05 am

Hi
After reading through this thread again one could say that you are benefitting from the arrangement. The boyfriend stays overnight during the week, when they are presumably at work all day. At the weekend they both go away so the property is not used when they would perhaps be home all day. What is there in this to be upset over? By your thinking surely you are better off this way?

Kind regards
C oggy
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Re: single occupancy

Postby Urge38 » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:05 am

Hi again

I am quite shocked at what I am hearing! !!!!!

A agreement is a agreement.

I am sure my Tennant would have something to say if I allowed a non paying friend of mine to stay over night in the annex.

both the letting agent and a friend who does lettings totally agree with me.

The both say. Its my investment.

If my Tennant didn't expect to be living as the single occupant. Why sign a single occupant agreement? ???

To only quote the costs of a undervalued microwave is not proving yr point.
the wear and tear extends to absolutely everything. From the washing machine down to the most simple thing as an entrance brush mat.

I am NOT saying I wish the poor tennant to live in prison with no visitors.

But the boyfriend is not some one local who simply wishes to spend time with his loved one.
he is using my annex to benefit himself from the 130 mile round trip to and from work.

I am not arguing as such. I just can't get why you dont see what I am saying !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Urge38
 
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Re: single occupancy

Postby COGGY » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:23 am

Hi Urge

I did not mean to upset you. I was simply pointing out that as the tenant is away all weekend there does not appear to me to be "extra wear and tear". If you suggested your friend stay overnight in the annexe this would obviously be wrong. Your tenant is paying rent to live in your annexe and your friend would be invading her space, not to mention the single bed. :roll: She is entitled to privacy and to have friends visit. We do not enquire as to whether or not our tenants have friends to stay over. We receive their rent and allow them to treat our house as their home. The normal practice is to invite friends to your home. How do you actually know how many times the boyfriend stays over? Most people do not know how many times their neighbour goes in or our or has friends round.

Kind regards
Coggy
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