Annoying Boundary Dispute

Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby arborlad » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:38 pm

bristolmatt wrote: They then try to add stipulations to the agreement to limit the height of shrubs that are well inside our curtilage.



If the shrubs in question are on the lip of the quarry, I would have no hesitation in agreeing to a height limit, it is not in anybodies best interests to have something large growing there.
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby bristolmatt » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:49 pm

But it's very much in our interests to have these higher to secure our privacy. Our neighbours want these maintained at 4ft solely to maximise their view, which has nothing to do with the original dispute. These shrubs are our only means of stopping our neighbours from being able to look right down into our garden and house.
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:18 pm

Hi bristolmatt,

they still want to stipulate how high we grow our shrubs (which are well inside the boundary on our land) which are nothing to do with the boundary dispute.

I'd say the neighbour has attached some importance to how tall your shrubs get (who can blame them, they've been tending to them for years, have they not?)

in fact, it would appear to me they consider this more important than gaining the slither of land.

do you plan on leaving the shrubs to grow unchecked? (one would hope not)

why not grub up the hedge on the cliff edge? - it serves no practical or aesthetic purpose (judging by your photos) and has gotten you both into this mess.

the boundary feature is the hedge/fence set back from the edge - you both agree on this (so does everyone you've asked)

reinstate a hedge along the full stretch and give it a regular trim.

or am I missing something?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby Roblewis » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:55 pm

Remind me - are you physically able to block their access to this path?. The agreement reached/offered is now void and if you go to court the previous agreement offered demonstrates your willingness to try and settle. You need to physically prevent access to this strip of land even if it means a secure fence alongside his hedge and a private gateway for your maintenance access.
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby bristolmatt » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:05 am

MacadamB53 wrote:I'd say the neighbour has attached some importance to how tall your shrubs get (who can blame them, they've been tending to them for years, have they not?)

Yes, they want the shrubs kept low to retain their view.

MacadamB53 wrote:in fact, it would appear to me they consider this more important than gaining the slither of land.

Probably the reason why they grabbed the land in the first place - so they (not us) could determine the height of the shrubs.

MacadamB53 wrote:do you plan on leaving the shrubs to grow unchecked? (one would hope not)

Not unchecked, but we do want the shrubs to grow up to around 6ft tall to ensure we retain our privacy.

MacadamB53 wrote:why not grub up the hedge on the cliff edge? - it serves no practical or aesthetic purpose (judging by your photos) and has gotten you both into this mess.

The shrubs have been there since 1970, well before our neighbours purchased their house. If they didn't like the hedge/shrubs obstructing their view, then I guess they shouldn't have brought the house - not our problem. They do serve a very practical purpose for us as they provide privacy from us being overlooked from above. Anyway the shrubs can't be grubbed easily up as most of the roots are growing out of the side of the quarry wall. Soil conditions are poor at the quarry edge so not convinced we'd get anything else to grow there. Why would we want to grub something established up only to replace with something else that will take years to grow and provide the same privacy we are already getting from the shrubs? Picture below shows our garden, the quarry wall and our neighbours house at the top. At the moment we are only overlooked from their first floor. Take the shrubs away from the quarry edge and we'd be overlooked from their ground floor and the large deck they recently built off the back of their house.

Image

MacadamB53 wrote:the boundary feature is the hedge/fence set back from the edge - you both agree on this (so does everyone you've asked)

Yes - and this is what the dispute is over. It has nothing to do with shrubs. We don't see why we should be willing to have our neighbour dictate that we maintain our garden in a certain way for their benefit.
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby bristolmatt » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:10 am

Roblewis wrote:Remind me - are you physically able to block their access to this path?. The agreement reached/offered is now void and if you go to court the previous agreement offered demonstrates your willingness to try and settle. You need to physically prevent access to this strip of land even if it means a secure fence alongside his hedge and a private gateway for your maintenance access.


Yes we could simply erect a fence as per the agreement we reached with our neighbour some time ago. This does risk escalating the problem though, as not convinced they wouldn't just hop over it anyway (it will only be 4ft tall) and carry on as before. Given how they have reacted in the past, I wouldn't put it past them pulling it down. Personally, we would prefer some document/ruling that ensures they don't have any legal access to the land.
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby Roblewis » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:59 am

Forget your offer as they have refused to settle finally but continue to ignore it. No person has a right to enter another persons land even to trim their own hedge - it is by permission each time otherwise it is trespass. Forget the 4 foot fence, warn him that should his access to this land and the harassment over the shrubs continues you will revert to the original boundaries and erect to 2 metre fence to the boundary. You can then say that you will go forward with the previous offer if he will sign up to it and permit you to manage your own land within the parameters of your free enjoyment and any legal duties you have. Tell your solicitor that you have made an offer already so any further offer would have to start at the point of the survey report NOT the offer already made.

I should perhaps add that cutting your shrubs was criminal damage in my view and neext time the police must be involved. Perhaps your solictor should be looking towards an injunction concerning access?
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby arborlad » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:00 am

bristolmatt wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:why not grub up the hedge on the cliff edge? - it serves no practical or aesthetic purpose (judging by your photos) and has gotten you both into this mess.

Anyway the shrubs can't be grubbed easily up as most of the roots are growing out of the side of the quarry wall. Soil conditions are poor at the quarry edge



It would be very unwise to even consider grubbing anything out in these circumstances.

The poor soil conditions are the very reason why nothing should be allowed to grow too large, anything growing there is likely to have a very poor root system and even a moderate wind will have consequences neither you or your neighbour will want.
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby Roblewis » Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:07 am

Arborlad

Totally agree with you and grubbing up may destabilise the face anyway with major consequences for the OP. I think barring access to the neighbour and a 2m fence well back from the edge is the only real option. Perhaps a fully concrete fence would be sturdy enough for all but very determined attack. :evil:

Unfortunately as we all well know there are neighbours who think they are the only persons in the world.
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:06 pm

Hi arborlad,

anything growing there is likely to have a very poor root system and even a moderate wind will have consequences neither you or your neighbour will want.

take the hedge out then...

what issues do you foresee that would make this such a no-no?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby arborlad » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:07 pm

bristolmatt wrote:
Roblewis wrote:Remind me - are you physically able to block their access to this path?. The agreement reached/offered is now void and if you go to court the previous agreement offered demonstrates your willingness to try and settle. You need to physically prevent access to this strip of land even if it means a secure fence alongside his hedge and a private gateway for your maintenance access.


Yes we could simply erect a fence as per the agreement we reached with our neighbour some time ago. This does risk escalating the problem though, as not convinced they wouldn't just hop over it anyway (it will only be 4ft tall) and carry on as before. Given how they have reacted in the past, I wouldn't put it past them pulling it down. Personally, we would prefer some document/ruling that ensures they don't have any legal access to the land.



Is there any particular reason to limit it to 4ft?

Better than any document/ruling is one fence that is correct and effective. Given all the circumstances, previous trespass/damage, limited working area etc., a steel palisade fence would be the ideal solution - it wont win you any 'best neighbour awards' though!
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby bristolmatt » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:28 pm

arborlad wrote:Is there any particular reason to limit it to 4ft?

Yes, we made this concession to our neighbours in regard to the height (4ft) and construction (chain link) of the fence in order to reach an agreement and avoid going to court. Perhaps we should have been tougher and not allow them to determine what the fence should be like, but at the time we were advised to do everything we could to reach an agreement and avoid court.

arborlad wrote:Better than any document/ruling is one fence that is correct and effective. Given all the circumstances, previous trespass/damage, limited working area etc., a steel palisade fence would be the ideal solution - it wont win you any 'best neighbour awards' though!

I agree - we would love to just bang up a 6ft solid fence to make the boundary fully secure. Maybe that is what we will end up doing if we go back to court and get a ruling in our favour with the boundary where the survey determined. However, if we do give them one last chance to sign off on the previous agreement, I guess it won't look too good for us if it does end up back in court if we were to change the fence height/construction (even given their history of previous trespass & damage).
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:52 pm

Hi bristolmatt,

Take the shrubs away from the quarry edge and we'd be overlooked from their ground floor and the large deck they recently built off the back of their house.

I'll have to assume you're right - it is difficult to tell from the photos.

I was not suggesting you remove the shrubs and plant more in their place.
I was suggesting you remove the shrubs and plant a hedge near the edge of your land.
a 2m fence abutting the edge of your land would provide privacy until the new hedge has matured...

on a different point, looking at the photos, if the hedge is 4' tall then the "cliff" isn't that tall really is it?
Kind regards, Mac
PS this has been active for +4 years now - the new hedge I suggest would be there or thereabouts in less time...
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby arborlad » Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:53 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi arborlad,

anything growing there is likely to have a very poor root system and even a moderate wind will have consequences neither you or your neighbour will want.

take the hedge out then...

what issues do you foresee that would make this such a no-no?


Kind regards, Mac



Can I ask, when was the last time you carried out work of this nature in a location like that?
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Re: Annoying Boundary Dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:07 pm

Hi arborlad,

you seem to twist a few of my postings into some sort of confrontation.

just to be clear - I am not claiming to be an expert - I've merely suggested what I would do if I had a hedge growing 3' in from the edge of my land (even if there's a "cliff" involved).

however, I don't have your experience and knowledge so I have asked you to share some of this for the benefit of the thread - not because I think I'm right and you're wrong.

Puzzled regards, Mac
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