Reclaiming land - old boundary

Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby Sudynim » Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:47 pm

pilman wrote:If you do erect a fence, that puts the neighbour at an immediate disadvantage.
If he damages the fence that is criminal damage so that the police can be involved as this turns the situation into a criminal law matter rather than a civil law matter.

I doubt that the police would be much use, nor that they should be. The neighbour will say -

"We've lived here over 20 years, and the boundary line has always been agreed as the railings. This bully moved in a few years ago and bought the property as it stood, but now he's trying to steal my garden. We came home last week and his contractors had trespassed onto my land to build a new fence which moves the boundary significantly. I'm not standing by and watching my garden being stolen, so I brought a contractor in to disassemble his fence and remove it from my land. It was done carefully, with no damage caused to the parts, and we stacked it up neatly for him - there it is, on his side of the line. But now that you're here, Constable, please look at the damage caused to my garden and plants by his unlawful trespass. I want to press charges against him, and also against the contractors - they know it's not right to climb over fences into other people's gardens and make a mess, so I want them arresting too!"

The Police would use the old "it's a civil matter, Sir" line and run away as fast as their size 12's could carry them.
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby andrew54 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:03 pm

Sudynim wrote:
pilman wrote:If you do erect a fence, that puts the neighbour at an immediate disadvantage.
If he damages the fence that is criminal damage so that the police can be involved as this turns the situation into a criminal law matter rather than a civil law matter.

I doubt that the police would be much use, nor that they should be. The neighbour will say -

The Police would use the old "it's a civil matter, Sir" line and run away as fast as their size 12's could carry them.


The police probably would say that, but pilman is correct "If he damages the fence that is criminal damage so that the police can be involved as this turns the situation into a criminal law matter rather than a civil law matter".
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby Sudynim » Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:00 am

andrew54 wrote:
Sudynim wrote:
pilman wrote:If you do erect a fence, that puts the neighbour at an immediate disadvantage.
If he damages the fence that is criminal damage so that the police can be involved as this turns the situation into a criminal law matter rather than a civil law matter.

I doubt that the police would be much use, nor that they should be. The neighbour will say -

The Police would use the old "it's a civil matter, Sir" line and run away as fast as their size 12's could carry them.

The police probably would say that, but pilman is correct "If he damages the fence that is criminal damage ...

No, it's not quite as simple as that, Andrew. Making out the offence of criminal damage requires several elements to be demonstrable, and there is a statutory defence for damage caused in the honestly-held belief that this was necessary to protect property (or a right or interest in property) under s5 Criminal Damage Act 1971. The Chamberlain v. Lindon case was the celebrated example (http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1998/329.html).

If zefeena was my neighbour, and suddenly erected a new fence 5ft into my garden, then I would immediately remove it to protect my land from unlawful enclosure (I imagine that you would do the same?). I would honestly believe that this was urgently necessary and reasonable, and I would expect any professional police officer to be familiar with the relevant statute (I might be disappointed in that latter point, of course....).
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby Mattylad » Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:40 am

Sudynim wrote: I would expect any professional police officer to be familiar with the relevant statute (I might be disappointed in that latter point, of course....).


Sadly this is most likely to be the situation in 99% of all cases.
Any comments I give here are my own opinions, for legal advise check with a qualified solicitor.
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby Mojisola » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:08 pm

zefeena wrote:Hi, I am trying to see if there is anything to stop me putting up a fence on the correct boundary line - which my neighbour is going to see as being in his garden!

My question is:
As i have proof that the railings are not the boundary, and the plans show clearly they are not, can my neighbour claim the land as is own because he has considered it is own for the past 20 years (and probably the previous owner). I only bought the property 3 years ago, but it was built 1897 and the neighbouring properties were not there at the time and have sprung up over the last 50 years or so. When i bought the property the straight lines of the boundary were clear, so as far as I see if i don't get the land back then i have been sold something i do not have!


Of course he's going to see it as his garden - it is!

I'm sure you bought the property after looking at it and were content with the boundaries as you saw them. You bought what you saw, not what was on an 1897 plan, otherwise you would have raised the issue before going ahead with the purchase.

Please don't become your neighbour's NFH!
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby Mattylad » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:31 pm

The position as it stands is most likely that where the current boundary features are is in fact where the boundary actually is rather than some old documents you have.

If you want to replace these drains you need to have a very good reason to do so (have they failed?)
and consult the now owner of the land that they are in.

It does not mean that you cannot replace them, however it does man that you need to consult the owner of the land they are underneath.

You will likely have to meet the requirements of your neighbour in order to be able to replace these drains, and that may also include providing a bond that ensures you return the land to the condition that it is currently in.
Any comments I give here are my own opinions, for legal advise check with a qualified solicitor.
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby mr sheen » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:54 pm

You want to put up a fence 5ft into your neighbour's land.
You need legal advice from a solicitor, forget the possible dubious loopholes or dodgy aggressive actions, either offer to buy the land or accept what you bought and paid for with the fence where it is.
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby Sudynim » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:02 pm

mr sheen wrote:You want to put up a fence 5ft into your neighbour's land.
You need legal advice from a solicitor, forget the possible dubious loopholes or dodgy aggressive actions, either offer to buy the land or accept what you bought and paid for with the fence where it is.


Absolutely the best advice.
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby evilmuffin » Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:25 pm

Hi everyone !
I took Pilmans advice :twisted:

Situation:
Parcel of land that was shown in my Land Registry doc was in my neighbours garden. I approached them and asked politely if they wanted to buy it, they said no and said I could not have it back as I didnt have a leg to stand on.
Hired a fencing contractor and removed the existing fence and moved it to the correct boundry, the Police were called by the neighbor and they said it was a Civil matter and couldnt get involved.
Finished the fence and now my boundry is correct as documented by Land Registry.
The neighbour has now applied for adverse possession saying its was like that for over 45 years and another neihbour has also given witness to that.
I will now be objecting to the adverse possession order but want advice as to what I can use as evidence and to stop the neighbour from regaining possesion of my parcel of land (which I reclaimed).

I appreciate this is an agressive approach but you need to fight fire with fire and I agree with Pilman.
My parents taught me not to take anything that didn't belong to me.
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby ukmicky » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:04 pm

There are different ways he can claim this land based on adverse possession dating back 45 years and your problem is ,if your neighbour does his claim correctly your chances of winning are virtually zero..


See a solicitor if you wish to fight this once you receive the papers from the land registry because it may end up a hopeless fight that could cost you more than land.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby pilavas719 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:37 pm

evilmuffin wrote:Hi everyone !
I took Pilmans advice :twisted:

Situation:
Parcel of land that was shown in my Land Registry doc was in my neighbours garden. I approached them and asked politely if they wanted to buy it, they said no and said I could not have it back as I didnt have a leg to stand on.
Hired a fencing contractor and removed the existing fence and moved it to the correct boundry, the Police were called by the neighbor and they said it was a Civil matter and couldnt get involved.
Finished the fence and now my boundry is correct as documented by Land Registry.
The neighbour has now applied for adverse possession saying its was like that for over 45 years and another neihbour has also given witness to that.
I will now be objecting to the adverse possession order but want advice as to what I can use as evidence and to stop the neighbour from regaining possesion of my parcel of land (which I reclaimed).

I appreciate this is an aggressive approach but you need to fight fire with fire and I agree with Pilman.
My parents taught me not to take anything that didn't belong to me.


What you have done is stealing, doesn't matter whats on your title plan its never accurate and the fact you bought the property with the boundary feature in that place means you should live with it. Taking your neighbours fence down and erecting it according to a 100 year old plan is just absurd!!!!

I hope logic and the law prevails in this instance and teaches you a valuable lesson.

I'm faced with a similar situation but i'm in the same situation as your neighbour but I told my neighbour to stop with moving the boundary and if he carries on im going to break down his wall. Got the police involved and although they could not intervene they sympathised with me and understood what kind of an arsehole my neighbour was.
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby SwitchRich » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:31 pm

The Original Poster seems to have changed their username.
It also seems like the good people of Garden Law have unwittingly helped one of the NFH that we all try to avoid...
Do keep the forum updated anyhow!
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby pilman » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:13 pm

I'm really confused after having an e-mail reminder that this thread had received a new posting.

Original postings seemed to have come to an end on 27th February.

Then on 5th August someone using a different screen name from the OP posted that he/she had followed some advice I had offered about moving a boundary fence, although my ironic first sentence when I offered that "advice" did not appear to have been taken into account.
You're obviously the sort of person that only wants to be agreed with, so get on with it.

In August two more sensible postings were made regarding that August posting.

Now it's December and a new poster decided that he/she wants to comment about "stealing" land, and a response is made that the forum should by updated.

It obviously shows how much time I have on my hands that I am also responding to this thread, but can we just leave this one to die of natural causes, because it may well be that any encouragement of people who may or may not meet the definition of an NFH is not what most people who post on Garden Law want to do.
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Re: Reclaiming land - old boundary

Postby pilavas719 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:05 pm

The is social media at it's best possibly the OP had no one else to turn to (No friends, family) so goes on Garden Law and takes the best advice he wants to hear and executes lol.

Now he has probably lost or won and is either reaping his reward or living in hell besides his quiet neighbour who wanted nothing but what he paid for in the first place.

Please be careful when giving advice to idiots.
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