TP1 differers to Title Plan

Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby dannymassive » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:38 pm

It wasn't noticed until after we had completed and the site was finished.

Being a private road with very limited parking, I could eventually with planning permission use the whole of my front land to produce an extra driveway. I'm not saying that I would defiantly do this, but keeping the land that I own would give me this option in the forthcoming years. Needless to say, I would prefer to keep my land.

I shouldn't have to sell it if I don't want to should I? Can they force me to sell it? Also, legal fees would be involved if I had to sell.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby COGGY » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:52 pm

By the act of forcing you to sell, they would be admitting that this land belongs to you. Therefore, no, I do not believe anyone can force you to sell your land.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby dannymassive » Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:32 pm

COGGY wrote:By the act of forcing you to sell, they would be admitting that this land belongs to you. Therefore, no, I do not believe anyone can force you to sell your land.


We already have established that legally I own the land. I am glad that your opinion is that they can not force me to sell. Thank you for putting my mind at ease.

Kipper wrote:There is a difference between compensating and selling....


I know this, but in order to "compensate" I would have to have lost the land - that's not going to happen for free!! Infact, knowing what I know now it is not going to happen at all.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby dannymassive » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:56 am

I have a bit of an update on the situation here.

It has now come to light that although the area of land was on a plan originally included in the contract of sale for my neighbours property, this was superceeded by the correct plan of which my neighbours completed on. The developers solicitors recieved an acknowledgment of receipt email from my neighbours solicitors which also advisd that they would complete on the correct plan which puts the land into my ownership - as I completed.

So, I would have thought that this would now be straight forward and that the developer could put my land back to garden rather than paved as a driveway/footpath for my neighbour.

However, my neighbour is still disputing this with the developer saying that they did not have the right to change the conveyance plans. The developer believes after being advised by their solicitor that everything was done correctly and that he has no legal claim to the land. To make matters worse, the area is still being driven on daily by my neighbour and they even parked directly on it and left the car there as they went away on holiday - is this classed as trespass?

So the saga continues and the developer is now waiting for my neighbour who has now returned from holiday to provide them with details of his solicitor who will be acting on his behalf. I don't know what his solicitor will come up with, or even could possibly come up with? Seems like I will just have to wait for them to sort things out between them until I can get my garden area back.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby pilman » Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:55 pm

this was superceeded by the correct plan of which my neighbours completed on. The developers solicitors recieved an acknowledgment of receipt email from my neighbours solicitors which also advisd that they would complete on the correct plan
Based on that evidence your neighbour's only claim will be against his conveyancer who failed to show the necessary duty of care to his client if he did not inform that client about the new plan prior to registering the property with Land Registry.

That is a matter to be decided between the client and the solicitor, not between you, the developer and the neighbour.

The developer sold the correct area of land to both parties, even though the developer is responsible for setting out part of the paved driveway over land conveyed to you.

You need to insist that the developer accepts full responsibility for removing the paving from your land and does that task as soon as possible.
You really are the innocent victim in this situation.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby dannymassive » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:28 pm

Bit of an update on this sitaution, however I am still no closer to getting my garden back!

My neighbour returned from holiday and did not provide any solicitor details to the developer - instead ceased all contact whatsoever. Four weeks later the developer sent my neighbour a letter quoting terms that were stated in his purchase contract. These included :

"In particular, we refer you to clause 12.7.7, which reserved to us, “rights to enter onto the Property (your Property) to plant trees or shrubs or to carry out landscaping operations or to fulfil the requirements of any relevant planning permission”.

Further, we refer you to clause 12.7.8, which reserved to us, “rights to enter the Property for the purpose of relocating any Boundary Structures or other boundary markers(in respect of which the Transferee shall not be entitled to object or to claim compensation) if as a result of a subsequent as built survey it is shown that such Boundary Structures or markers have not been erected in the position shown on the Plan."

The letter also stated a start date for the works to commence to reinstate my garden.

So, from what I gathered from the above, he had no grounds to object and I would be able to have my land back which the neighbour is currently parking on. However, after receiving this letter my neighbour wrote back to the developer stating that he refused them permission to do the said works and that he had forwarded the details of this dispute to his solicitor to be dealth with my them. A few days later, the developer received a letter from his solicitor which included the text :

"We will revert once we have completed our investigations, but in the meantime would be grateful if you could confirm whether you have authority to accept service on behalf of the owners of *** my address **."

and...

"If your solicitors would like to make contact with our ** Mr. Solicitor **, then we look forward to hearing from them, as from the information that we have seen to date, there does appear to be a potential practical solution for all parties to bring this unfortunate matter to an early resolution. "

The later I have found out today that their "resolution" is for the developer to ask me if I wanted the whole garden block paved - therefore leaving it useable for my neighbour to park on. Errr.... This would not benefit me in any way whatsoever! I just want my garden to be able to plant shrubs etc on and make my house look more appealing and asthetically pleasing for me.

It seems they are trying to bully me into this block paving option by saying that the neighbours solicitors could file for a court order to delay the works to reinstate my garden - how can they do this when they have no claim to my land?
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby arsie » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:28 pm

Hi. I have only just noticed this thread and would appreciate a bigger plan to see how the yellow land fits in to the overall site; your house and property including the yellow land; the neighbour's house and land. While your diagram clearly shows the yellow land it isn't easy to appreciate the 'big picture' of the situation. Thanks.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby dannymassive » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:04 pm

Hi Arsie,
Please see attached plan. Do note that the red line is my neighbours property as this plan has been copied from his title plan of which I downloaded. I have marked some numbers on the plan which are as follows :
1) Neighbours driveway
2) Footpath to neighbours house of which is currently also being parked on, including the yellow land which belongs to me but is currently paved.
3) neighbours house
4) my house.

It is the area marked in yellow that I wish to be reinstated as a garden. The area marked green is my current front garden. So my actual front garden should be the yellow and green areas marked on the plan.
Image
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby arsie » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:44 pm

Many thanks dannymassive that makes it clear.

I can see why the neighbour is digging his heels in - with your yellow land he gains a full car-width drive way in addition (and right next) to his drive and garage. I can also see that his parking a car there is an intrusion on your privacy which does not happen anywhere else nearby, This sort of thing is usually carefully planned by the site architects. But I can see how the mistake has been made by someone, as the shape of your yellow land is slightly at odds with the rectilinear layout of almost all of the other boundaries in the immediate vicinity.

Two thoughts/ideas.

1) Buy, borrow or rent a caravan and some wheel clamps and park it on your yellow/green land until such time as the developer comes to remove the block paving and provides a boundary feature such as a wall with piers in bricks matching your house.

2) Even if you do get your yellow land back m'lad'oh is still going to park at the bottom of his remaining drive anyway so really you want a wall there that gives you privacy. Since there is no nearby highway there is no reason this cannot be up to 2 metres high without needing planning permission.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Hi Danny,

The land does not overlap in any way on any title plan, just on my neighbours TP1 transfer form.


Why are you not doing as you please with your land?

You could have the pavers up and a fence erected in a day if you roped in a couple of mates to help.

The neighbour has NO grounds to be on your land.

Even if the developer made a cock up with the plans HMLR can't register it to you both. Let the neighbour waste his time, money and energy on trying to prove something against the developer. If in the remote likelihood of things going seriously in his favour then you'd be down to the price of the fence (and the land).

Just my non-expert view...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby dannymassive » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:56 pm

Thank you for your thoughts.

Another point that I forgot to mention is that between 1 & 2 is a knee height wall to seperate the neighbours driveway from the footpath.

Arsie, you are correct in thinking that with my "yellow" strip of land that a full width driveway is produced. I did consider something along the lines of your "option 1", however, my garden area already marked green is sloped / landscaped so would involve quite a bit of work to remedy that before I would be able to park anything on it. Also, I did wonder if whilst this "dispute" is still on-going, if it may have the effect of "red flag to the bull" and make matters worse for me.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby arsie » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:12 pm

Danny I do understand however comes a time to stop being Mr Nice Guy. If standing up for your rights causes the neighbour to act like a bull in a china shop then the sooner the better, at least you know (if you don't already) his game. Have your smart phone ready to take a video or better still install some CCTV to record what happens with your land. Get a posse of mates (massive!) along to help. Carefully pot up your plants etc. Remove block paviers and store them carefully. Ditto the knee high wall. If parking a caravan (which he cannot easily move if you clamp it) is not possible then put up a high wall along your boundary (you are going to have to do that as he will park his car on his remaining drive to annoy you!) So you might have to lose a bit of nice landscaping for now at least. OCCUPY YOUR RIGHTFUL LAND.
Last edited by arsie on Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:46 pm

Hi danny

I echo the sentiment in arsie's last post.

Whilst I can appreciate your initial caution it has now been a year or so since you moved in.

Has it not occurred to you that by not taking assertive action you are giving a false impression to your neighbour?
He will now be of the firm opinion that he can do as he pleases.
What would need to happen for you to act? (YOU ALREADY OWN THE LAND SO THAT'S PRETTY FINAL)
Suppose you both get a letter through the post from the developer which acknowledges the cockup and offers the neighbour a handsome payment as compensation. I think it likely he'll just carry on parking there anyway until you actually stop him.

Having recently erected some fencing for the first time I can recommend it - not too demanding and very satisfying.

Again, just my non-expert view.

Good luck Danny, Mac
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby pilman » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:09 am

In the short term think "Bollards to the neighbour" and a small amount of concrete mix to set then in.
It's your boundary so your choice for an immediate action plan.
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Re: TP1 differers to Title Plan

Postby COGGY » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:59 am

As long as you are "Mr. Nice Guy" your neighbour will take advantage. If it is not resolved he would eventually acquire rights. Act now. Have someone stand by with a camera ALL the time work is taking place. As has been suggested CCTV would be best. It does work. It stopped our neighbours.
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