retaining wall.

Re: retaining wall.

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:36 am

Hi rosie,

could I do work on my drive to stop it falling over,onto their drive?
how? (without carrying out any work to the wall)

want would happen if the boundary wall went over to?
there'd be some mess to tidy up - you'd be liable if neighbour's property is damaged
your property would lose the benefit the wall was providing so this would need to be remedied - ie. a new wall (at your expense)


would I have to give notice before I started work on my drive.?
not if you do not carry out any work to the wall (but I don't see how that is possible)

Kind regards, Mac
edit: you're right - I didn't mean covenant (question still stands though - do you want me to rephrase it?)
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby rosie2 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:17 pm

Hi Mac,
my drive is blocked paved,you can see that the bricks have widen, I wish to dig about halfway on my drive to try and stop the drive from going over any further.
please rephrase your question.

Kind regards.
Rosie.
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 12:51 pm

Hi rosie,

the walls and fences which shall separate the property hereby conveyed from the adjoining property of the vendor

this was written when your property was split off from a larger parcel of land.
the walls and fences between your property and the remaining part of the larger parcel were declared as party walls (ie. jointly owned by the two).

my question:

on which side of your property was the remaining part of the larger parcel? (did the sols confirm this with documentary evidence?)

Kind regards, Mac
PS and same question regarding similar entry on neighbour's register.
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 22, 2014 2:07 pm

Hi nothingtodowithme,

I think we have since established the 9" wall is still there:

Hi Mac,

...the wall is 9in underneath but single brick to the height of 5ft...
...the wall as never been replaced, just built on top...


Kind regards, Mac
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby rosie2 » Wed May 14, 2014 2:53 pm

Hi Mac,
sol away on holiday.
the retaining wall between both drives are roughly the same size,
the houses built in 1974.the 9in wall was made into 4in wall around 1975 leaving 9in underneath,altered by same neighbour as now.

Kind Regards.
Rosie.
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed May 14, 2014 5:11 pm

Hi rosie,

I think you've misunderstood my question.

does your property have more than one garden wall? (ie one to the left-hand side and one to the right-hand side)

if so, how do you know which wall(s) the wording on your deeds is referring to?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby rosie2 » Tue May 20, 2014 8:05 am

Hi Mac,
Yes I have more than one boundary,three. one of the posts I sent to you quoting from the deeds says that :

any such adjoining property shall be mesne or party walls fences and thenceforth be so used cleansed maintained and repaired accordingly.

Kind Regards.
Rosie.
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby jonahinoz » Tue May 20, 2014 8:40 am

Hi,

I also was told, years ago, that if I built a boundary wall out of rock-face blocks, then the "pretty" side should face my neighbour. I didn't build the wall. I'm starting to suspect that my informant had a vested interest.

I UNDERSTAND that a brick or block wall, if less than 9" thick, should have 9" piers (?) every 10ft.

I UNDERSTAND that the thickness of a retaining wall should be 50% of the height of the soil it is retaining, but a sensible BR inspector will often accept 30%.

Both of the above relate to Building Regulations, but not all walls are subject to BR.

Mac, I'm happy to be educated. :D

John W
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue May 20, 2014 10:01 am

Hi rosie,

Yes I have more than one boundary,three.

so the wording on your deeds refers to either:

one of these walls, two of these walls, or three of these walls.

how you would find out is by establishing how many of the three parcels of land on the other sides of the three walls were owned by the original vendor of your property at the time he sold your property.

that clause can not refer to land he didn't own at the time.

the fact an identical or similar entry appears on another property's register does not make it a 'matching pair'.

I hope this makes sense?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue May 20, 2014 10:57 am

Hi John,

I also was told, years ago, that if I built a boundary wall out of rock-face blocks, then the "pretty" side should face my neighbour. I didn't build the wall. I'm starting to suspect that my informant had a vested interest.

I suspect you're right :)

I UNDERSTAND that a brick or block wall, if less than 9" thick, should have 9" piers (?) every 10ft.

I think the need for piers would depend on variables more than just thickness - length, height, materials.

I UNDERSTAND that the thickness of a retaining wall should be 50% of the height of the soil it is retaining, but a sensible BR inspector will often accept 30%.

Garden walls are exempt from control under the Building Regulations, although BR will provide guidance (your understanding of such guidance is wrong though).

Here's a link you and the OP may find useful (see very last section):

http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/Documents/(GN24)%20garden%20wall%20doc.pdf

All my non-expert, unqualified understanding.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby Roblewis » Tue May 20, 2014 2:07 pm

At risk of repeating any earlier posts - Why continue with the fence - remove it now before any work on the wall. If it were me I would abandon the 2.5 inches of your land where the current wall stands and erect a wall immediately behind it. Erect a retaining structure to soil height plus 9 inches and then erect your fence. The lower the retaining wall height the cheaper it will be. A 3 foot high retaining wall is around £350 per metre erected at 5 foot you are looking at £1000+ per metre. The party wall act applies but use the Line of Junction Notice to inform your neighbour of the work. The beauty of this notice is that it is NOT contestable in law by the neighbour and permits footings on his land.

Bob
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue May 20, 2014 4:06 pm

Hi Rob,

If it were me I would abandon the 2.5 inches of your land where the current wall stands

where do you get 2.5 inches from?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby Roblewis » Tue May 20, 2014 10:38 pm

Mac

If both parties have maintenance responsibilities then each effectively only owns half the thickness of a 4 inch wall ie 2 inches give or take a bit. I am really saying is the loss of this small piece of land such a real problem in the whole scheme of things? Any new wall on OP land is NOT subject to the restrictions on the current joint retaining wall. If neighbour wants particular brick let him take down the old wall, the OP has supported their land and that is the duty of care satisfied. We must not get hung up on very narrow strips of land when we can work around it. Yes some will say it is giving in but it ends the strife created by some ignorant legal adviser in the past who made this wall part of both owners responsibilities. The wall is there to preserve the duty of the higher ground landowner to prevent his land collapsing onto the lower ground. Without such clauses it would have been plain sailing as only one landowner would be making the real decisions.
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue May 20, 2014 11:37 pm

Hi Rob,

If both parties have maintenance responsibilities then each effectively only owns half the thickness of a 4 inch wall ie 2 inches give or take a bit.

the wall is nine inch thick and we don't yet know if it's a party wall.

I am really saying is the loss of this small piece of land such a real problem in the whole scheme of things?

I agree with this sentiment, however...

Any new wall on OP land is NOT subject to the restrictions on the current joint retaining wall.

IF it is a party wall then I think building a new wall against it will be subject to the restrictions in so far as ANY work on the party wall requires agreement.

If neighbour wants particular brick let him take down the old wall, the OP has supported their land and that is the duty of care satisfied.

and who will own this new wall he's built?

We must not get hung up on very narrow strips of land when we can work around it.

I agree.

the issue is they both think it's a party wall but can't agree on the way forward regarding its repair.
if it isn't a party wall the issue dissolves.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: retaining wall.

Postby Roblewis » Wed May 21, 2014 4:12 pm

Party Wall Act does not require agreement for work unde a Line of Junction Notice and cannot be contestable and I feel this route could be the best way out of this log jam.

The original 9inch wall has been rebuilt at 4inch wall as I read it. But even than the argument is the same - is a 4.5inch strip really worth the hassle.

I just wish legal minds would stop and think twice about making retaining structures a joint responsibility. It causes all sorts of problems down the road when work upon it is required. When it is a joint wall between buildings one can see the need for joint responsibility BUT a retaining wall. I actually worked a simmilar situation with the designers for a superstore where the neighbour saw a chance of big bucks to allow work to be done. He now has a nice view of some gabions and the supermarket has a wonderful rock garden landscape.
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