Yet another boundary dispute

Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:04 am

Hi all,

Thank you for running such a useful forum - there is a wealth of information available here!

A new neighbour has recently arrived and has obtained planning permission for a new extension (which I don't really mind as it is at the bottom of my garden). He is planning to build the extension right at the boundary of our properties and has already removed the fence ready for the foundation works. I believe the fence is his as the support posts are on his side. Firstly, should this work require a Line of Junction notice under the Party Wall Act? He is planning to start the work on 1st May. As an interesting aside, building control have told him that the new wall must be set back from the existing wall so that the footings and guttering don't overhang my property.

Secondly, he is now disputing where the boundary of the properties are. The wall of his property currently forms part of the boundary with fencing at either end to complete it. The guttering and footings extend into my garden. He is saying the he believes the boundary should be approx. 2ft inside my garden and away from his external wall as there is a hairline gap visible between the boundary line and his property on the title plans. The very simplistic diagram below attempts to show the layout.

Fence External Wall Fence
----------------===============================--------------------------------


The boundary has been at its current position for 8.5 years that I can prove and probably longer if I can track down the previous owners.

Does he has a case for moving the boundary? What's the best way to proceed?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Rob
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:59 am

Hi Rob,

he is now disputing where the boundary of the properties are.

how long was he not disputing where the edge of his property is?
how would he get from his front or back door to his 2' strip down the side?
were both runs of fence installed at the same time by the same owner?

define 'hairline' in millimetres.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby COGGY » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:14 pm

Hi

Have you been successful in contacting the previous owner of your house? Can any of the other neighbours remember anything about the fence being moved or always being in the same situation?

Regards
Coggy
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:37 pm

Fair point. Let's remove the word "now" from that sentence.

He's proposing the boundary extend down slightly past the end of the walls at each end and then re-align back to the current boundary so that there is access from both the front and rear. I don't know when the current fencing was installed or by whom - I've spoken to the previous owners of both my property and the neighbours, and the fences were already installed at there current position when both moved in. There is a different neighbour across the road who told the previous owner of my neighbouring property that at one time there was access all the way around the property but I don't know when that was.

Looking at the electronic copy of the title register at 100% zoom, the boundary line and the property line are pretty much one solid black mass with the odd white pixel. When zoomed in to 800% there are approx. 1mm gap between the lines.

Thanks,
Rob
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:05 pm

I've just taken a look at my neighbour's title plan and the gap is much more pronounced then on mine - about 2mm at 100% zoom. However, it shows the property outline as being at least 2mm back from the boundary (which is a straight line).

Thanks,
Rob

EDIT:

This image might help. This is from my neighbours title plan with his property bounded in red and my property in blue:
Image
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby arborlad » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:48 pm

It doesn't matter how much you zoom, this: define 'hairline' in millimetres. is unachievable.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:24 pm

arborlad wrote:It doesn't matter how much you zoom, this: define 'hairline' in millimetres. is unachievable.

Hi bluegate,

Thanks for trying and I'm sure you understood where I was coming from.

I can not see anything in his title plan which would lead me to believe he owns a 2' strip down the side of his house.
On that basis I'd recommend you defend your property and politely inform him you will be doing so unless a court decides otherwise.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:05 pm

Hi Mac,

Thanks for the reply and for confirming my thoughts. I did understand where you were coming from.

The reality on the ground looks rather different to the plan.

For interest, this is a picture of their external wall and one part of the fence:Image
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:09 pm

Hi bluegate,

What is that on the left?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:29 pm

Hi Mac,

The thing on the left is a picnic table up on its side. I was raking up rotting apples at the time I took the photo :-)

Regards,
Rob
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:39 pm

Hi Rob,

is there anything on the ground which he is claiming marks the edge of his property?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby ukmicky » Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:42 pm

The title plans only shows a general boundary and therefore is only a general guide to the actual legal boudary position.It does not and can not be used to determine where your land ends and where his starts .

What is more important in determining the boundary line is what is on the ground and the current position of the current fences and walls.

He will need to issue a party wall notice if his foundatrions are going to be within 3 meters of any of yours and deeper than yours .

Its a bit more complicated than that however so read the guide on the Partywall act.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ooklet.pdf
Last edited by ukmicky on Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:26 pm

Hi Mac,

There is a flower bed along the base of the wall and established plants and shrubs to the sides. Here's a wider view:Image

There's nothing on the ground he claims marks the boundary - hr simply paced out a couple of feet so that "he can get a ladder up and clear the gutters", as he put it.

Ukmickey - thank you for the advice.
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:54 pm

Hi Rob,

He's trying it on IMHO.

It's one thing to say he thinks he has a right to access.
Quite another to claim he owns the strip outright.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby span » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:56 pm

I reckon the neighbour is right and bluegate is wrong.
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