Yet another boundary dispute

Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:45 am

Bluegate,
Same wording on mine.

Just wanted to warn you that's all.
Costs mount up.
What might be useful to you may be copy of the original planning on your property and neighbours Called historical planning applications. Sometimes these are available to download on council website. If not e mail Chief Planning Officer for the area. They will find it and e mail you a copy for a charge(mine was £35. 00 plus £5 for every copy (different years)
This should show you how the land was / boundaries were when your house was approved Get the neighbour's too and see what his shows .
I found this very helpful.
Looking at your properties plan I cannot see any walkable space between his property and yours.

Also I can't see how they gave him planning permission for an extension so close up to your boundary and of that height.

A good surveyor will tell you where your boundaries are. This may cost usually between from £400 upwards depending on
various things. Average domestic land survey about £600.
I guess £600 would pay for a new fence all the way up your garden so that there was no way he could get in expect with your permission.
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:09 am

Also I can't see how they gave him planning permission for an extension so close up to your boundary and of that height.


The neighbour completed Certificate of Ownership B on his planning application declaring that he did not own all of the land on which he was building and then served notice on me as required. I didn't object as it was only a very small amount of land and made very little difference to me. When I recently pointed this out to his solicitor she tried to dismiss it as simply informing me that the building works were taking place :roll:

What might be useful to you may be copy of the original planning on your property and neighbours Called historical planning applications. Sometimes these are available to download on council website. If not e mail Chief Planning Officer for the area. They will find it and e mail you a copy for a charge(mine was £35. 00 plus £5 for every copy (different years)


Thanks for the advice - I'll give that a try and see if they have anything.

Regards,
bluegate
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:09 pm

Tried contacting the local council planning office and they said that due to the age of the properties (1890 and 1931 respectively), and the fact that planning in its current form didn't come in to force until 1945 that they don't have any plans from that time.

It was worth a try though...

Regards
bluegate
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 3:53 pm

Sorry, yes I guess they don't go that far back but pages of old deeds do. Any chance of seeing those? They will be in someone's keeping. Preveious owner's perhaps or LR.? Think you can download them for around £7.00 a page.

Also you could ask for a copy of planning for your neighbour's proposed extension?

It is all a lot of stress and aggravation anyway whichever way you go. I think you have to weigh everything up and then decide.
Get advice from RICS . http://www.rics.org. (i put letters in wrong order in a previous post) . I found them very helpful. They put me in touch with a surveyor who gave me 30 minsplus free time and advised me. He then visited and did a report on the boundary etc.
Just had a re read (so editing it )and see the title plan. Seems that yours is L hand boundary(facing house at front) and his the R . Also seems it goes straight down without deviation.
Cannot understand how planning are allowing him to build an extension with eaves overhanging your ground. Ask them why they allowed this?
Unless you can establish whether previous owner of your house put up the fence or not it is all a bit doubtful. Depending on what sort of fence smooth side of planks/panels would show on owners side and posts and rough side on neighbour and posts showing more on neighbours side. (That is how the builders erect fences on new build round here).
If it should turn out fence is his then you can always move the rose. Cut it back to three buds and dig deeply all around.
It will soon shoot up again in a new position.
Last edited by cleo5 on Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby Hugh Jaleak » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:07 pm

The Solicitors are working for him, they'll write as many letters as he wants them to, provided he's paying them! I personally think you've done everything correctly so far, if he'd anything concrete to go on, he'd have done something by now. he has failed to produce any evidence, simply as I suspect he hasn't got any, and is bluffing in the hope you'll be intimidated into folding and giving in to his demands. Don't, until when and if, he comes up with something credible. The surveyor is also in his pay, she'll likely favour him, for fear of the bill not being settled..... :shock:
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby jonahinoz » Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:26 pm

Cannot understand how planning are allowing him to build an extension with eaves overhanging your ground. Ask them why they allowed this?

Hi Cleo5,

The planners are not interested in who's land the development is on, only that it complies with their rules.

I could apply for permission to demolish your house and build a new one, and stand a fair chance of it being approved, even if you protested ... all else being equal eg: not a listed building, etc,

But it's interesting that the neighbour in question has admitted that he was developing on land he did not own ... and is now saying that he does own it?

John W
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:05 am

Hi John W,

I think the reason the neighbour admitted he doesn't own at the land at the time was because otherwise building control would have forced him to take it down.

His initial planning application was submitted by his architect and was accompanied by a written confirmation that the works would not encroach on my land. During the BCO inspection of his foundation slab it became clear that although the wall wouldn't encroach, that facias would so the BCO insisted that the wall be set one brick back from the existing wall.

The neighbour ignored the BCO, built all the extension walls and (ironically), changed the dimensions of the extension as he felt he did not have enough access space on the other side of the extension. At this point he was made to submit a new planning application with the modified dimensions and to complete Certificate of Ownership B on planning application declaring that he did not own all the land on which he had built (and give notice to me about it).

Now that his extension is built and signed off he can dispute the boundary without the risk of his extension being knocked down.

Regards
bluegate
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:38 pm

Hi nothingtodowithme,

There's nothing to report... I'm still waiting for a letter from the neighbour's solicitors to drop on to my doormat.

It's been a month since the survey was done and two months since the last letter from his solicitor. The last time I responded to them it took them almost 3 months to reply.

Regards,
bluegate
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby despair » Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:18 pm

Sounds typical for bullies without a case it takes them time to come up with more and more lies
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:06 pm

Hi all,

I received a letter and a copy of the surveyors report from my neighbour yesterday.

The surveyors opinion is that the boundary is probably approx. 25cm from the wall at one end, and 39cm from the wall at the other end. She has based this on extrapolating a straight line from the front of my property (which borders a different neighbour), along an existing hedge and through to the back on my property where I border the problem neighbour. She states though that this does not match up with a conveyance for the neighbour's property from 1955 nor the ground features that currently exist. She also states that this is not enough land for the neighbour to perform maintenance tasks on his property and he will still require access to my garden.

The neighbour's take on this report is that I am encroaching on his land along the entire length of the fence boundary (and with my shed at the bottom of the garden). Even though he paid for and erected the fencing himself on his own land!

His proposed "practical solution" is that I remove his fence and erect a 3 to 4 ft fence along the surveyors proposed boundary line (removing two 20ft holly trees in the process), and then he'll let me keep my shed where it is. Even though he still won't be able to access his guttering without coming on to my land (which might be why he's proposing a low fence?)

I've sent a response back already but I've no idea where this is going to go next...

Regards,
bluegate
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby arborlad » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:29 pm

bluegate wrote:Hi all,

I received a letter and a copy of the surveyors report from my neighbour yesterday.

The surveyors opinion is that the boundary is probably approx. 25cm from the wall at one end, and 39cm from the wall at the other end..........She also states that this is not enough land for the neighbour to perform maintenance tasks on his property and he will still require access to my garden.


Regards,
bluegate



Of course it isn't, but it's not your fault - a metre or metre and a half would be required to safely access and maintain a single storey building.



She has based this on extrapolating a straight line from the front of my property (which borders a different neighbour), along an existing hedge and through to the back on my property




Although a boundary is often presumed to be a single straight line, in reality, it is often a series of straight lines that make up the boundary if there is something on the ground to explain that. Who owns the hedge?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:50 pm

Hi arborlad,

I'm not certain who owns the hedge - it doesn't border the problem neighbour (it's right at the front of my property). There is an old wire fence running down the middle underneath of the hedge which is what the surveyor used as the boundary line.

Regards,
bluegate
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:09 pm

To make things clearer here is a redacted copy of the surveyors boundary plan from the report:
http://i66.tinypic.com/hwgvty.jpg

My property is highlighted in blue, the neighbour's in red.

Regards,
bluegate
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:57 am

Hi bluegate,

surveyors opinion is that the boundary is probably...

...[the surveyor confirms] this does not match up with a conveyance [plan]...

...[the surveyor confirms] this does not match ground features that currently exist...


in other words, a leap of faith is needed to accept their opinion, rather than all physical evidence available.
that is to be expected - she is following her client's instructions.

replacing his fence along a new line so that he gains such an insignificant and sliver of land that will be of little benefit seems utterly pointless - maybe he is trying to save face after shelling out for a survey that didn't quite deliver as expected...

I would politely inform him that you accept the findings of the surveyor as no more than a professional opinion since it contradicts all other primary and secondary evidence available - first and foremost being the physical boundary features, followed by conveyance plans, title plans, planning application plans and ownership of land certificate, historic aerial photos, statements of truth from neighbours, the location of the shed, etc.

I'd also make it clear that I wouldn't have a problem with him having temporary access to affect essential repairs, so he should stop worrying.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Yet another boundary dispute

Postby bluegate » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:08 pm

Hi Mac,

I would politely inform him that you accept the findings of the surveyor as no more than a professional opinion since it contradicts all other primary and secondary evidence available

That pretty much exactly what I've gone back to his solicitors with.

I'd also make it clear that I wouldn't have a problem with him having temporary access to affect essential repairs, so he should stop worrying.

I've made a point in putting this in the last two responses to his solicitors - that he is welcome to come round to maintain and repair his property but on my terms (i.e via my front gate). This still seems to be his sticking point - he doesn't want to ask!

Regards,
bluegate
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