To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:21 pm

Hi manutd99,

it seems to me that about 12 months ago you both agreed that the extent of your land ended at the long-established fence - and you replaced the fence which reinforced the point.

you now wish to renege on that agreement because it doesn't suit your needs.

you need to remember that about 12 months ago the neighbours had been occupying and enjoying the use of a 3' strip by the side of their house for 25 of the 60 or so years they'd been there.

you only evidence that the agreement was ill-founded is the measurements from the original conveyance even though these only show where the boundaries were at that moment in time and cannot be used to determine the precise whereabouts of the boundary, you bought the property with the fence as is, and you' spent time and money making sure the new fence sat on the agreed boundary.

pure speculation I know, but I wonder whether you chose not to fence between the houses in order to have an opportunity in the future to "reclaim" the 1' strip should you need it...

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6023
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 9:44 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
pure speculation I know, but I wonder whether you chose not to fence between the houses in order to have an opportunity in the future to "reclaim" the 1' strip should you need it...


For me, the reason it was not built between the gable walls was so I could access the side of the house without having to go through their side everytime i needed access with a ladder. For them, the reason was that they didnt want to share the costs of the new fence. Those were the only reasons. I actually only learnt about what the deeds said when they asked me to re-instate the fence about a month ago & when I said "no chance", they told me to check my deeds - lol! Thats when i discovered the true dimensions.
Now, I dont want to put a fence back because i find it easy access to the gable, they are simply being spiteful, and would ultimately have a new fence for free. But if i am pushed to put in a fence, then i wanted it along the real boundary stated in the deeds.

MacadamB53 wrote:you now wish to renege on that agreement because it doesn't suit your needs.


The agreement 12months ago with my neighbour was to rebuild the wall in the front garden but for it to stop at the start of the gable wall. They didnt want to pay and I get easy access. (Both the front garden section & gable sections of fencing was equal) The reason to replace it was because it was crumbling / falling down. The new fence was satisfactory to my neighbour, I remember that I brought them over to check the lines once built. They were happy. No issues for the last 12 months.
The issue is that my neighbour now wants to renege on that 12 month agreement ... and basically gets a free fence. The reason for the change of heart is due to a major but petty fallout - we couldnt look after their home when they went on holiday (I said no) because we were also planning a holiday at the same time. Stupid, i know, but they are old, and treat that issue like the end of the world. We did so much for them. Such is the world.

So, to build a fence or not to build a fence, that is the question. Where to build it? Or not to build it? And I alone pay for it! Opinion?
manutd99
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:37 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:07 pm

Hi manutd99,

thanks for the explanation.

I am still of the opinion that you did not agree to move the boundary 12 months ago, that a +25 year old fence defined the extent of your land when you bought it, and you're now referring to a +60 year old document because it meets your needs - even though any measurements it contains (which cannot be used to determine the precise whereabouts of the boundary) have been superseded by events on the ground - rather than the remnants of the old fence which you took out 12 months ago.

let's come at this from a different angle...

suppose 12 months ago your neighbours found enough money to chip in for some extra materials and have the fence replaced along its full length - ie no "open plan".

or suppose you had entirely different neighbours who had erected a fence of their own on their side of the boundary whilst the old fence still stood.

would you now be asking the forum whether it would be a good idea to remove the fence because you've "discovered" it's in the wrong place? answer - if it was in the wrong place that should've been sorted 25 years ago, but it wasn't so it isn't.

in your shoes I would simply leave it open plan, take plenty of photos, and politely inform the neighbours you are under no obligation to erect a fence.

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6023
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:41 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:I am still of the opinion that you did not agree to move the boundary 12 months ago, that a +25 year old fence defined the extent of your land when you bought it, and you're now referring to a +60 year old document because it meets your needs - even though any measurements it contains (which cannot be used to determine the precise whereabouts of the boundary) have been superseded by events on the ground - rather than the remnants of the old fence which you took out 12 months ago.


Correct - our agreement was not to move the boundary 12month ago, it was to stop the fence at the start of the gable, and then not to have a fence between the gable walls.
The dispute arises because they now want to renege on that agreement, and want to re-deploy the fence. They are going back on their word. For that reason,I am saying that if they want to build a fence, then only on the original boundary position. Hence, the conflict.
What annoys me is that the solicitor that came in person today said that if i paid them money, then i could build the fence on the original boundary between gables.
This means that they are ok with the principle of building on the original boundary line, but for a price.

MacadamB53 wrote:in your shoes I would simply leave it open plan, take plenty of photos, and politely inform the neighbours you are under no obligation to erect a fence.

Yes, I hope they dont erect a fence when i'm out. Hence, i was of the thinking to build it on the boundary first to avert this possibilty. Seems like whoever makes the 1st move is how it will stay & then deal with the consequences after.

Thanks for your helpful answers - appreciated - it gives perspective and balance
manutd99
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:37 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby jdfi » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:09 am

Get a fence up on the 2ft / 2ft position rather than 1ft / 3ft.

Or as you say, leave open plan.

What precise rights do you have over this 4ft wide access to the rear garden? Even though ownership may be 2ft / 2ft it is possible that you both have rights over the full 4ft.
jdfi
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:46 am

jdfi wrote:Get a fence up on the 2ft / 2ft position rather than 1ft / 3ft.

Its open plan for the moment. Their solicitor said they will write to me. I think i should wait for the letter to understand their position on this first before making a rash call and just build it. I made some points to them: like the neighbour pays a ground rent on the land, so what right do they actually have to tell me what to do ... shouldnt it be the vendor? Also, I said that my "legal" right of way to the gable side would blocked if the fence went back at 1ft. I said I would not agree to that. Coud'nt answer these questions.

jdfi wrote:What precise rights do you have over this 4ft wide access to the rear garden? Even though ownership may be 2ft / 2ft it is possible that you both have rights over the full 4ft.


I dont have any access to the garden from the 4ft wide gable side of the house. It is fenced off. My garden access point is from another street as im on the corner.
I actually just need the access to the gable side to clean the side windows / any general maintenance / wiring / satellite dish etc. Hope it helps.
manutd99
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:37 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:01 am

Hi jdfi,

no rights could have been acquired if the 4' strip has been "open plan" for just 12 months.

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6023
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby jdfi » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:14 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi jdfi,

no rights could have been acquired if the 4' strip has been "open plan" for just 12 months.

Kind regards, Mac

No. But if there is a clause in the deeds stating that this shared passageway is for them both to use.....
jdfi
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby jdfi » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:15 am

manutd99 wrote:I dont have any access to the garden from the 4ft wide gable side of the house. It is fenced off. My garden access point is from another street as im on the corner.
I actually just need the access to the gable side to clean the side windows / any general maintenance / wiring / satellite dish etc. Hope it helps.


I think we need to see a sketch diagram.
jdfi
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:36 pm

Below is the URL to the sketch. Hope it helps. I cant directly attach the sketch within the forum as i get the error msg: Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached.

Image

Image

The gable width is only 4ft. It is quite narrow to begin with. If they were to completely fence off the gable at 1ft, it becomes too narrow to walk through and do anything like clean the windows to the side of the conservatory / maint. The deeds say that the true line is 2ft. If there was a fence at 2ft, that would be ok for me as I could get in. Alternatively, I continue to push to keep it all open plan "as-is" but they definitely dont want that either as they want us to suffer. Plus they wont let me in from their front gate either so what do I do? human nature - it can become so bad, so quickly. :-(

do we pay them money so i can build a fence at 2ft as they suggested and I said "get lost" at the time? Do I have any rights to stop them building a fence at 1ft?

Thanks for your advice.
manutd99
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:37 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:18 pm

Hi manutd99,

for someone who likes to refer to proper plans it's odd you've chosen to provide us with such a rough sketch... :)

I don't understand why you claim the gap between your house and the fence would get narrower - surely the fence would stand parallel to the house so the gap would be the same for the entire length...

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6023
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:38 pm

Hi Macadam, yes it is rough but i thought it would help to understand the situation better. Proper plans are for architects to design and I am definitely not an architect!
What i am saying is if the fence was deployed at the 1ft line, then yes, it would be in parallel as u say, but getting into a 1ft gap is impossible.
However, if the fence was deployed at the 2ft line as shown, then it could enable me to have access. Cheers
manutd99
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:37 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby jdfi » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:46 pm

Please can you continue your dotted line to the top of the paper - ie do you believe this should be a vertical line, or should this taper off to the top left?
jdfi
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:44 am

jdfi wrote:Please can you continue your dotted line to the top of the paper - ie do you believe this should be a vertical line, or should this taper off to the top left?


sorry, yes, it should be tapered off at the 2nd dot from the top as the fence bends to the left
manutd99
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:37 am

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby COGGY » Thu Mar 12, 2015 11:42 am

Hi
Did you mean that your neighbour has suggested you pay him to allow you to put the fence in the position you say it should be? If this is correct how much did he suggest you pay him?
Regards Coggy
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 
PreviousNext

Return to Boundaries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests