To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:21 pm

Thanks Pilman for your reply. Very helpful comments.

Further update: My neighbour has barricaded my access to my side of the pathway with a 4ft high x 2ft wide container full of rubble. I have also received a letter saying that ALL the pathway belongs solely to the neighbour alone - i.e. all 4feet of the pathway! They also write that if I erect a fence, then it will be taken down immediately. I havent even talked to my neighbour since the fallout so unsure where all this came from. Seems to have a complete disregard for any peaceful outcome - very nasty - its ruining our lives. I'm not sure what to do now? call police? Just erect it? Do I need to inform them in writing that i will be erecting a fence like you would for a wall? Thanks again.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby COGGY » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:46 pm

Please try not to let this ruin your life. I have been there and know how you feel. Now we cannot believe how bad we felt. You will sort this out and life will be fun again. Do not let your neighbour get to you. Try to laugh at him, "Oh guess what he's done now". It is hard but believe me things could be worse, neighbour problems are bad but not the worse thing to deal with although it may feel like it now. Try to feel sorry for him. Tell yourself he is a sad old bloke.

Best regards
Coggy
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby COGGY » Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:47 pm

Is it possible your neighbour reads this site?

Coggy
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby jdfi » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:06 am

Get the container removed. Get your fence up. Front and back. Something substantial. Also erect security cameras. Call police if they start to vandalise your fence.

BTW it is possible that the property may be 'registered' now that ownership has changed from two people to one - don't quote me though.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:15 pm

COGGY - I hope he doesnt read the site lol but you make a valid point

JDFI - I pushed out that container that the neighbour has placed to block me from accessing the side of my house for at least10 days but he keeps putting it back and continues blocking my access to the pathway. Bully indeed. I even wrote to him saying that he cant do that but it still continues

Dunno what to do as he is not getting it?

thanks again to everybody for their thoughts and advise.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby Collaborate » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:34 pm

manutd99 wrote:COGGY - I hope he doesnt read the site lol but you make a valid point

JDFI - I pushed out that container that the neighbour has placed to block me from accessing the side of my house for at least10 days but he keeps putting it back and continues blocking my access to the pathway. Bully indeed. I even wrote to him saying that he cant do that but it still continues

Dunno what to do as he is not getting it?

thanks again to everybody for their thoughts and advise.


Time to take proper legal advice and take it to court if he won't desist. What you have is someone unlawfully interfering with your use of your land. You cannot tolerate that unless you're prepared to lose the land in the fulness of time.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:33 pm

Thanks Collaborate.

A very interesting day. A boundary surveyor came to measure up the boundaries on instruction from the neighbour. He came with the neighbours conveyance agreement & associated map with the boundary measurements.

Firstly, he said he needed to establish a reference point for all his measurements. To do this, he measured by tape the boundary width of the house next door to their's (on the other side) and that was exactly the same width as that in the map (down to the inch!). He said that he now has a reference point.

Next he measured the neighbour's front boundary width upto my fence and it was 1ft more which resulted in a big "OHHH" ! I explained there was a tree in the corner preventing installing a fence on the true boundary position by my previous owner. He took photos of the trunk.

He confirmed that after measuring in the front garden at least, the neighbour had 1ft more than what is written in the map.

Next, he measured the open plan area between gable walls, he noted the physical evidence that the edge of their concrete flags formed a line and could be a boundary feature and that the neighbour's gate fell just short of that boundary feature (i.e. the 2ft line). He also confirmed that the edge of their flags to their other neighbour's boundary measured exactly with what was written in the boundary map.

He told me before he went that he see's my point of view, needs time to think, but he could not share his report with me or his final views as he had been paid £1200 by the neighbour. He told me not to contact him lol. Seemed like a good person tbh.

1.Any idea how to get hold of this report? I am fairly sure that this report agrees with me - that the correct boundary is at 2ft. No chance from the neighbour
2.Now that they employed a surveyor, measuring mad with all his laser gadgets, laser camera with tripod, taking tons of photos, am I wise to still build a fence on the 2ft line from front to back (taking down my front fence in the process) or just focus in open plan area where there is no fence ? What should I do as my next step as a surveyor has just come and gone? I dont want to mess up.
3.In people's experience on the forum, what do u think the neighbours strategy here? Spending £1200 for a 1ft dispute seems mad considering they didnt want to fork out when the fence was installed. Or is this part of a wider plan? no idea. scratching my head.

thanks again to everybody for their thoughts and advise.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby span » Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:52 pm

Remember what I said way back on page one?

span, way back on page one wrote:Start building fences manut, and build them big and strong and to the full extent of your land. It's a bit murky now, you having your fence in the wrong place for the last 25 years, but fence it anyway and let them worry about having to recover the 1 foot strip.


You should've done it then. You should do it now. ASAP!
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Fri May 01, 2015 1:04 pm

span - Thanks for your reply. Is there a reason for your recommendation to do ASAP. What could they do? cheers
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby COGGY » Fri May 01, 2015 7:55 pm

Hi

Are you sure the neighbour paid the £1200 himself? Could he have claimed for this on his house insurance?

Regards
Coggy
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby Roblewis » Fri May 01, 2015 9:26 pm

1) You do now seem to have an idea that their surveyor has identified the discrepancy that you also have noted. He is bound by court rules to deliver an honest report if it is to be used as potential future evidence. - £1200 is a rather steep fee for this - around £6-700 would be more normal.

You could stir up the situation by writing that you intend to install a post and wire fence along the line set out in the rentcharge plans and ask him to produce all evidence he has that this is not the boundary line. Explain that should he withhold any information you will bring it to the attention of the courts should it prove necessary. This is the heavy way.

The less heavy is to take comfort from what you witnessed with the surveyor and just quietly install the fence and let the neighbour initiate action.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby manutd99 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:58 pm

Hi ALL, it's been a while but here is a quick update everybody!

After the old man did his boundary survey last year, he went quite. I asked for the survey report at the time, but he told me to get-lost. For me, this confirmed that the legal boundary was right down the middle at 2ft so I was right. So I just left everything "as-is" and things just rapidly went quite for the last 9 months - like nothing happened. Perfect!

BUT, last week, I bumped into him in town and he told me that he was going to build the fence on the 1ft line very soon (i.e. he will build it 1ft from my gable wall preventing me from accessing the side of my house). I told him where has this come from? He replied "You'll see" with a chilling laugh!

Anyway, getting a hunch, I rang the LR, and they confirmed that they have received his applicaton to register his property through a conveyance solicitor using the dimensions stated in the original paper title (after 50+ years). The LR specifically told me that he DID NOT provide any other dimensions (specifically from his survey). They were just going to register his property by his paper title but to "general boundaries". They said that they were going to scan in all the pages in his paper title and they also confirmed that his red line would be adjacent to mine on the OS map - so no change to the OS map.

A quick reminder as it's been a while - his paper title contains the same boundary map as my original pre-registered title with exactly the same dimensions.

The issue I have is that my front fence is 1foot inside the legal boundary line for 25yrs that i know. The middle section between both gables is "open-plan" / unfenced. The last section is fenced again at 1foot inside the boundary line. As the middle section is open plan, I have been able to walk down the side of my house and clean my windows at the end. He wants to fence it so that I can't access the side of my house anymore.

Questions:

1.Can anybody see what is he upto by registering his property suddenly after 50 years? Is there something blindingly obvious ? (see condition 3 below from the LR website on Adverse Pos).
2.Is he going to try to claim adverse possession on the front fence section because 1foot of my garden is currently on his side of the fence for last 25yrs (going against both of our paper titles) & then say that the line should be straight because of the straight red line in his newly registered property?
3.How can I stop the adverse possession if this is his plan?
4.My friend told me that he can not claim adverse possession on the middle section because there is no fence now for 2 years.
5.My friend said to me that adverse possession can not be successful on the front fence either because I can still access the disputed land. (I can just walk around the front fence into his garden to the other side of my fence).
6.Should I completely remove my fence at the front and back to stop any adverse possession so all of it is unfenced?




LR Webite: "The third condition is that the squatter has been in adverse possession of land adjacent to their own for at least 10 years under the mistaken but reasonable belief that they are the owner of it, the exact line of the boundary with this adjacent land has not been determined under section 60 of the Land Registration Act 2002 and the estate to which the application relates was registered more than a year prior to the date of the application. An example of where this condition might apply is where the dividing walls or fences on an estate were erected in the wrong place (Law Com 271, paragraph 14.46)."

What to do - he is registering with the LR, his property according to his pre-registered paper title which is good but why oh why now?
Many thanks for your feedback.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby Collaborate » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:28 am

Put in a simple but cheap fence on the actual boundary.

Pilman advised this nearly a year ago.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby confused3 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:17 am

Collaborate wrote:Put in a simple but cheap fence on the actual boundary.

Pilman advised this nearly a year ago.



This, It is rather pointless asking for advice here then ignoring it.

Get the fence up now or it will be too late.
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Re: To build or not to build a fence – that is the question?

Postby COGGY » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:18 pm

You have been asking advice for some time and have received extremely good advice from people who really do know what they are talking about (I am not one of them). It appears from such advice that you need to either put up a fence immediately or accept that you lose. The choice is yours. Coggy
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