Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:16 pm

Hi Jilly,

I'm not sure whether your last postings were meant to answer our questions, but they don't appear to mention anything about the caveat you referred to earlier - can you explain a bit more please about what the caveat said and into what document it was written?

I think we understand:

the cable providing mains electricity for next door runs across your property and specifically via an outbuilding
their electricity meter is located on your property
you want to switch their supply off temporarily so that necessary repair/maintenance works can be carried out on your property
you want to re-route the cable and this could be done whilst the mains is off
your neighbour isn't cooperative

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby span » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:32 pm

This is like pulling teeth, trying to get direct answers to simple questions. I hate it when posters ramble on about things that they're entirely familiar with, but the rest of us are simply surmising, estimating, guessing and practically, taking leaps in the dark trying to understand the situation.

So, just in case the OP is hard of learning:

What caveat? Explain the caveat in great detail. Where is it written down? Who is it between? How long does it run? How long has it run? Have you spoken to the neighbours about the caveat? If so, how did they respond?
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby Jillycookstown » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:44 am

Sorry my post was a bit confusing, but you have interpreted the issue correctly. I really don't think I am being unreasonable but as in my previous post I am in the middle of it and I am a bit biased so it is useful to see others point of view who are not involved
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby Jillycookstown » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:50 am

Good grief some people are very passionate. At the time we allowed them to move the cable a letter was written, albeit not by a lawyer. The letter stated clearly that they could cite the cable through our outbuilding, however they were responsible for ensuring it was maintained at least two yearly and that if in the future we wanted to renovate the outbuilding or for health and safety reasons it may need to be moved. The previous owners never shared this with the new owners the current location was never put as a burden on our title. I need to try and work out how to post photos as you have all been really helpful and I think it would help you all even more if you could see the set up
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby arborlad » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:53 am

Jillycookstown wrote:Hi their actual electric cable runs through our outbuilding this was routed there in 2009 as the previous set up was condemned as being unsafe,



Who condemned it as being unsafe, is it still in the same condition?
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:05 am

Hi Jilly,

so you sent their predecessor a letter stating what they can do, rather than have them sign a declaration of what they will do - there is a big difference - and that what they will do did not extend to obtaining a sig from their successors.

if I've go that right then the letter wasn't legally binding then and it most certainly isn't now.

however, the cable has only been in situ for about six years?
what about the meter - how long has it been on your property? and in its current location?

to share images you will have to upload them to a third party site (I use http://www.tinypic.com) and then paste the URLs on a message here (hope that makes sense)

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby span » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:51 am

Now we're getting somewhere.

So, its been there a relatively short time with your written permission, said permission not conveyed by previous owner to current owner?

Tell them you're revoking permission and they're under notice to remove, or you'll remove it yourself.

Do you still have a copy of written permission? Do they, now?
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby Roblewis » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:52 am

I really do think you need to involve your utility company as you may actually find that you may be responsible for things such as non payment, damage to meter etc and it is still not clear that this supply arrangement to a n other party is actually legal - Private lines within farm buildings often occur - but to third party property I am not so sure. You really need to look at your deeds closely for easements, covenants and any codicils.
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby arborlad » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:31 pm

Roblewis wrote: Private lines within farm buildings often occur - but to third party property I am not so sure.



I get the impression that everything was in one ownership at some time and things may have been done to an 'agricultural' standard - apologies to any farmer who reads this :)
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby celestina » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:14 pm

ukmicky wrote:Wow ,don't touch anything without permission.

You can't just turn off someone's power and I wouldn't even attempt it as you could find yourself liable for lots of damages which could possibly run into thousands. Think about how much their property will be devalued by if it has no power and then think about how much their claim would be for. Even turning off for a day or two could find you liable to a large damages claim .

You are also legally forbidden from touching anything on the electricity boards side of the meter without the electricity companies permision.

Were these two properties ever part of the same land or owned by the same person. Just because nothing is mentioned on the deeds dosent mean they have no legal right to keep it there. The vast majority of easements are not express and therefore not written down on anything.


This cable is attached to your property and it would be very hard for any owner of your property to say they didn't know it was there and under such circumstances it would most likely be fair to say the owner of your property allowed it. Therefore the chances are an easement right exists under common law.

Even if you could Pursude a court that no easement under common law existed there is a extremely good chance that an easement could be claimed under equity.

My advice is they probably hold all the cards so talk to them and get them to agree to it being resited at your cost, somewhere else on your land that they agree to and have it done at a day and time that they agree to. Also if they agree make sure it's all done on the same day or you may find a bill for a hotel room coming your way for everyday that their house is without power.


Yes, completely agree with what Unmicky has said - same applies to our water meter - please don't touch anything or you will feel the wrath of the electric company as our NFH did with the water board. Nothing needs to be written down in deeds or anywhere else for a potential prescriptive easement to legally exist.

Where did they get their electricity prior to the 6 years or so before your agreement? (Prescriptive easements are attached to properties not people).

Probably your best bet would be to contact the electric company and explain your concerns.
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby ukmicky » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:08 pm

Jillycookstown wrote:Good grief some people are very passionate. At the time we allowed them to move the cable a letter was written, albeit not by a lawyer. The letter stated clearly that they could cite the cable through our outbuilding, however they were responsible for ensuring it was maintained at least two yearly and that if in the future we wanted to renovate the outbuilding or for health and safety reasons it may need to be moved. The previous owners never shared this with the new owners the current location was never put as a burden on our title. I need to try and work out how to post photos as you have all been really helpful and I think it would help you all even more if you could see the set up



Lets ask the proper questions but firstly.

Forget about their being no burden being placed on your title as most easements are not noted on titles and legally do not have to be added to the register for yours or their property for an easement to exist. .

Forget about them previously moving it with your permission if it was previously on your land before 2009 as any rights that existed previous to 2009 are what is important. If a right existed previous 2009 it being moved has not altered those rights except the right for it to now occupy its original place on your land.

Totally forget about the meter as its the electricity company's property and even if they have no wayleave, while it is supplying your neighbours property they will not remove it from your property and both you and your neighbour also have no legal rights to relocate it or the cable coming onto your property running to it without the electricity company's permission. To do so is an offence.



To find out what legal rights actually exist for the cable running from the meter to the neighbours we need to find out the circumstances surrounding their power cable being place on your land originally .

QUESTION

When the land was originally split and your land was purchased am I right in thinking the neighbouring property had there electricity supply running to their property via your land. ? If it was their on separation when your land was originally sold there was an implied easement created.

If it was not there when the land was divided how was their house supplied with electricity originally .

If the original power supply was placed on your land after the land was split up and sold and you have nothing in writing limiting it to an exact date , as something of large monetary value,now relies on it the law will assume an easement has been granted under equity and as an easement will exist they will have a right to turn down a request to change the route of the power cables .

The meter is a separate problem because as I said before the meter and cable running to it is not under the control of your neighbour and they like you can not move it without the electricity companies approval. The electricity company will now after all this time claim a way leave if you try to force them to cut off the power to the neighbour .

You may without your neighbours permission be able to persuade the electricity company to re-site it somewhere else on your land if a suitable location can be found if you wish to do work that is essential but be prepared for a charge to come your way from the electricity company . However even for that to happen if a easement exists which I would say is most likely, for the electricity company to move the meter your neighbour would have to agree to you moving the cable running from the meter to their house. Its just like a ROW ,you cant alter the route without the dominant tenements approval .
Last edited by ukmicky on Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:28 pm

Hi ukmicky,

in the absence of any other evidence - or as a quick win - wouldn't establishing when the meter was first installed go some way to indicating how long next door has had a cable running across the OP's land?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby ukmicky » Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:37 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi ukmicky,

in the absence of any other evidence - or as a quick win - wouldn't establishing when the meter was first installed go some way to indicating how long next door has had a cable running across the OP's land?

Kind regards, Mac


Hi mac

Yes , which is why I said

We need to find out the circumstances surrounding their power cable being place on your land originally

and

When the land was originally split and your land was purchased am I right in thinking the neighbouring property had there electricity supply running to their property via your land. ?
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby mr sheen » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:51 am

This was not set up without the full knowledge and agreement of both parties at the time of set up, so the root of the issue is likely to come from when it was set up and the chances are that the owner at the time it was set up (of the OPs property) got something in return for this arrangement or was the owner of both properties and set it up to benefit from the sale of one. This was not just set up by the neighbouring property without the knowledge of the owners of the OP's property at the time, and they would not have agreed if they didn't also benefit in some way.

The facts of the matter are...... this situation exists; the neighbouring property has to have a supply of electricity; the neighbour is not going to sit back and accept anything that involves shutting off their electricity supply so has the most to lose and will therefore fight as much as is necessary to keep it at all costs and is likely to win (since it is more likely than not that at time of set up both parties would have agreed to permanent arrangement/easement). Successors in title would have to accept that what is present is what they're buying and would be aware of easement since meter is there.

So seeking to remove it, IMHO, will be pretty fruitless and very likely very very costly.

If there is a question about safety, contact the Electricity infrastructure company and ask for it to be assessed and they will probably advise where it should be sited and how it should be sited and will also decide who pays and how much if changes are needed.
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Re: Neighbours electricity cable runs through our property

Postby Jillycookstown » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:38 am

Hi the line is a private line which belongs solely to my neighbour. The electricity company will not have anything to do with the cable after it leavesthe box. The wire as stated runs through our outbuilding then the live wires come out of the back of my house and dangles down over my garden.
I spoke to the person who moved the both boxes they had to be moved as the building they were on was being converted.
Now we are left with this difficult situation.
Does anybody know if you can ask a utility company to move the box
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