Boundary dispute

Boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Sat May 30, 2015 11:24 pm

We purchased our property from new in 1979. It was one of five . It had been empty for a year before our purchase and was unfinished.
The builders erected a post/ wire fence some metres in from the edge of the verge (my boundary was to the road edge)
They erected it there because water pipes had been laid along part of the verge and it was cheaper than rebuilding a stone hedge that had originally bordered the farm lane/ unadopted road.
This stone hedge was removed when building started.

Only a stump of it was left in front of my property though the stone hedge remains intact in front of the other properties.
My deeds say i must maintain the stone wall to the front of my property. I told the solicitor there was only a stump. He said "maintain that then."

I planted a hedge in front of the post/wire fence. This took years reaching a height that required cutting.
A neighbour offered to cut the verge side. I paid him the first time or two but then he was always out there cutting it(and all the other hedges) so I left him to it only protesting when he cut it too low or chopped holes in it to have a clear view from his park home to the road.

The old farmer ,Mr B, retired and new people N bought the farm which is about 200 yards along the unadopted road from my house.(Mr B offered me first refusal of the farm.)
Neighbour continued to cut hedge. Mine and those around.
We were on friendly terms with new farmer N and wife.
Imagine our surprise when on returning from holday one year we found a gate across road and a huge granite name plate(for the farm) on our stone stump.
The farmer knew we were going away as we had dined with them the evening before our holiday . He hadn't mentioned gate or name plate.
We said nothing. His wife was my friend.
Sheep wire from the gatepost(which was on our verge) to our post/wire fence was attached.
I thought the neighbour , J who tended the hedge had done it- to keep out dogs. The neighbour placed compost bins on the verge. There were four in all. After a while I asked him to remove them. he did. He also planted poppies and crocosmia which spread all over.

By 2005 second farmer, N ,had sold converted barn, fields and farm and new owners stayed 2yrs then it was empty for two years before present owner bought it as a smallholding. I had never met either of the two subsequent owners. though neighbour, J, had.

April 23rd 2015 Part of my hedge had died.(about 2ft in width. I thought to remove it but found the dead branches all entwined in the wire netting which was attached to the post/wire fence so cut the wire to free all the branches.
That evening the smallholder came round shouting I had destroyed her stock proof fencing etc etc and if I didn't replace it she would get cotractors in to replace it and send us the bill.
Next day came a hand delivered letter stating the same.
I contacted a solicitor .
He suggested registering deeds and this confirmed my property goes to the road edge.
Then came a visit from someone who had bought the converted barn next to the farm.
He was a most obnoxious person who shouted that the verge was not my property. It had been taken by adverse possession and I wasn't allowed to remove the stockproof fence. seems they had taken that too and the hedge? And that the neighbour J had been cutting my hedge on instructions of previous farmer ! He told me he did it because I said he could and he liked it neat. But they say he is their agent!
So we began to cut the hedge down to half its height.Easier to maintain and to keep an eye on things from Kitchen window,
The following day letter, by hand, from smallholder A threatening to put posts and barbed wire in.
Went out later to see tractor there and they were putting in tall wooden posts next to my concrete ones. We called the police.
She agreed to remove the posts if we replaced the wire and put in new hedging where it had died.
My solicitor wrote saying it was my land and if she harrassed me we would get an injuction taken out against her.
Not to worry he told me.
I am worried sick.
The years of deception are unexplainable. Why did they not ask me? Why not say that we think this is our land and what shall we do about it. Why the secrecy when they pretended friendship?
The present smallholder says that land is on their deeds(both she and the and converted barn owner) and yet they say they have taken it by adverse possession. It is not on their LR . She says the road is her "drive". Neither is that on her LR deed.
The original farmer Mr B. told me the road belonged to no one and that he concreted it over. It was just a farm track years ago.

A land surveyor will cost between £1500 and £2000. Money we don't have to spare.
The smallholder says our deeds are wrong.
The neighbour is in on the deception with them. The farmer who supposedly took the land by adverse possession told him it was his land . If so why didn't he register it? How can you take land that verges an unadopted road
The neighbour even told my son in 1985 that he couldn't park his car there(I only learned this yesterday).
I walk on that verge The previous farmer, N ,never stood on it. The present smallholder has never stood on until they came with the tractor to palnt posts. Neighbour J has his friends parked cars on it occasionally
I need this all cleared up.
No we cannot resolve any of this by personal discussion. They are evil people.
As for the neighbour J he has been a thorn in our side since we moved in. He told me he was going into sheltered accommodation hence our decision to halve the hedge height.
I can't see any resolution to this but through the courts and that will take years that we don't have.
We never had any problems with neighbours/ boundaries or anything until we moved here,
The neighbours in the other four houses to our left are all lovely normal people,
ps I have posted part of this before but it seems i hijacked someone else's post.
Some kind soul told me how to post a new topic So thanks for that.
Sorry it's long and involved and hope you can make sense of it.
cleo5
 
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby jdfi » Sun May 31, 2015 9:52 am

There are a lot of issues here.

How wide is this verge (and I would like to see a sketch diagram if possible).

You essentially have four choices:

-use legal cover on any house insurance/union memberships/etc
-pay for solicitors
-do some serious reading-up in order that you can act yourself
-let the matter rest

We can help (to a point) with your knowledge, but DIY is not a topic for everyone.
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Sun May 31, 2015 7:32 pm

Thanks jdfi,
Our solicitor says there is no question but that it is ours.
We would rather not go through a court process as OH is 80 and unwell .It would stress him but if we have to then so be it.
Legal fees Ins. will pay up to a certain amount win or lose once we start proceedings.
The stone hedge that was right to the edge of road was demolished and the rubble from it used as in as infill in our new lay by/ drive in front of our five houses. The rest was left as rubble on my land along with the two granite gateposts.
If the land was always on their deeds why did they say they had taken adverse possession. It makes no sense. If they had taken ad. poss then why didn't they register it?
Neither the road or my verge is on their LR deed.
We do not use that road . Our exit/ entry is via our private drive which leads onto the council owned part of the same road further down. The verge matters to us as it provides a possible road down to the back of our land if there was possible future residentail developement. It is also parking space if needed.
I will get son to upload a photo when he next comes .
We are wondering whether it would solve anything if we had a land surveyor define exact boundaries?
cleo5
 
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby jdfi » Sun May 31, 2015 10:53 pm

cleo5 wrote:We are wondering whether it would solve anything if we had a land surveyor define exact boundaries?


No. That's usually done by both parties wanting to reach agreement.

Let's start with a sketch please. Basically we need to see: your property, their track, the disputed land, your route to the public highway, and theirs.

We also need to see a heavily anonymised version of your title plan to see how that compares to how you understand the on the ground situation to be.

You can download your title register and title plan at https://www.gov.uk/search-property-info ... d-registry for a total of £6
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:05 am

We have the title and register plan.
As soon as this started on April 23rd I saw the solicitor and he had the land registered straight away. Title register came back as expected . Our land down to the road.


We were going to sell 6 yrs ago but OH decided against it. The solicitor suggested registering the deeds at the time but OH declined . Said it could be done when we eventually sold.

The other 4 houses have changed owners at least twice but not ours. we have a private drive/layby that has two entrances . They all have the stone hedge with trees on it as a front boundary.

Anyone reading this , living in a house they bought before registration came in, get your property registered. Keep an eye on it and fence or mark your boundaries.

Can't do uploading. but will get son to do it when he comes.
Thank you for helping jdfi.
cleo5
 
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:09 am

Hi cleo,

tell your son to upload any images to a third party site (I use www.tinypic.com) then paste the URL on to a message on here.

this is the current workaround because the site's own storage has been maxed out.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby jdfi » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:54 am

cleo5 wrote:We have the title and register plan.
As soon as this started on April 23rd I saw the solicitor and he had the land registered straight away. Title register came back as expected . Our land down to the road.


We were going to sell 6 yrs ago but OH decided against it. The solicitor suggested registering the deeds at the time but OH declined . Said it could be done when we eventually sold.

The other 4 houses have changed owners at least twice but not ours. we have a private drive/layby that has two entrances . They all have the stone hedge with trees on it as a front boundary.

Anyone reading this , living in a house they bought before registration came in, get your property registered. Keep an eye on it and fence or mark your boundaries.

Can't do uploading. but will get son to do it when he comes.
Thank you for helping jdfi.


Okay, on the assumption that the title register & plan are as you expect, it is perhaps worth submitting a 'search of the index' map and £4 (I think) payment to see what other titles have been registered next to yours. Click https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/w ... chIndexMap fill it in, print it off, and enclose some form of map. I would suggest you want to be asking for any titles that overlap or share a boundary with yours.

I 100% endorse your advice to undertake voluntary registration.
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:30 pm

Thanks,
Will do that. It must be something different from the LR title papers we downloaded for all the properties here.
Our five and the other 4 including the smallholding.
cleo5
 
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:32 pm

Thanks Mac,
Will tell him that.
cleo5
 
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby span » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:48 pm

What is a "stone hedge"?
span
 
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:04 pm

jdfi
All the titles have been registered I have copies of their LR deed. 9 in all
A stone hedge is a Cornish wall. Stones/ earth and hedge /trees on top.
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby pilman » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:56 pm

All the titles have been registered I have copies of their LR deed.
Does that registered land include the entire length of the road? A search of the Index Map will reveal any unregistered land, which I would have thought from what you posted would be the road.
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:05 pm

Pilman,
The unadopted road is not on any of their deeds. So it cannot be her "drive".
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby cleo5 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:30 pm

Pilman,
Yes that unadopted road should show up as unregistered.
Were it privately owned the it would be on someone's deeds.

I guess we just wait now until we hear from her solicitor.
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Re: Boundary dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:49 pm

Hi cleo,

that unadopted road should show up as unregistered.
Were it privately owned the it would be on someone's deeds


I'm sure you know this and just got your words muddled, but all land - whether registered or unregistered is owned by someone.

all you can say for certain right now is the road is not part of your title or that or either of the four neighbour's.

that does not mean none of your neighbours don't own it - it may be part of a separate registered title or remain unregistered for some reason (doubtful I know, just making the point...).

Kind regards, Mac
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