Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby Tarquin » Sun Sep 20, 2015 11:11 am

Ours, and several neighbours properties opposite had grass verges from their hedge or picket fence boundary that directly abutted the road. Some had a verge around 6' deep, some around 18" and some nothing at all. There are no kerbs.
In recent months a number of people have removed their hedge or fence and laid gravel or paved over the verge in order to park their vehicles off the road and whilst this is good for them creating these 'extended width driveways' has effectively removed all but a few on road visitor parking spaces along a 100yd stretch.
We however have retained our boundary hedges and are finding it increasingly difficult to park outside our own property as casual visitors to others now use 'our' spaces.
Whilst we are very much for live and let live and have had an unspoken understanding with most neighbours - we try not to park opposite each others drives and if they know we'll be home from work then they will ask their visitor to move etc., but as time goes on less thoughtful new neighbours do not share the same outlook. One is parking his own vehicle in 'our' space despite his own drive being clear.

So....my questions are... The verges were never council maintained, most being little more a narrow muddy strip. Drop kerbs have not been needed but should planning permission of some description have been sought? Where the verges were wider I recall a council official telling one neighbour that they were OK to put some 'weed control' shingle down but could not pave the former verge. Some are now paving. My fear is that as time passes ownership of this land will pass to the householder and future residents may choose to reinstate a fence that would considerably narrow the road?
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby spennyroo » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:09 pm

Hi

You say that the Council didn't maintain the verges, is the road an adopted highway? If it is then the highways authority (normally the Council) would have to give permission for any vehicular crossing whether or not a drop kerb was needed.

Cheers
S
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby spennyroo » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:45 am

I've just read this in an email this morning and though of you!!!

Man given ticket for obstructing his own driveway
A driver has been given a parking ticket for obstructing his own driveway. Imran Khan left his car outside his house and returned to find the ticket. When Mr Khan called Blackburn with Darwen Council’s parking enforcement service he was told it was a new directive that if you block a driveway and there’s a lowered curb you can be given a ticket. The parking service didn’t seem to know that you can park in front of a driveway with the house owner’s permission, said Mr Khan, who plans to appeal.
Sunday Mirror
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby Tarquin » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:22 am

spennyroo wrote:Hi

You say that the Council didn't maintain the verges, is the road an adopted highway? If it is then the highways authority (normally the Council) would have to give permission for any vehicular crossing whether or not a drop kerb was needed.

Cheers
S

Not quite sure what you mean by an adopted highway? The verge abutting my property doesn't appear on our deeds. The council do mow a wider verge 50 yards up the road.
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby Tarquin » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:22 am

spennyroo wrote:I've just read this in an email this morning and though of you!!!

Man given ticket for obstructing his own driveway
A driver has been given a parking ticket for obstructing his own driveway. Imran Khan left his car outside his house and returned to find the ticket. When Mr Khan called Blackburn with Darwen Council’s parking enforcement service he was told it was a new directive that if you block a driveway and there’s a lowered curb you can be given a ticket. The parking service didn’t seem to know that you can park in front of a driveway with the house owner’s permission, said Mr Khan, who plans to appeal.
Sunday Mirror


Lol :mrgreen:
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby jonahinoz » Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:00 am

Hi,

My understanding of the regs is that...

You may drive along, or over, a footpath to access property that you have authority to access.

If you habitually drive over a kerb to access your property, the Highways Authority can demand that you drop the kerb, else they will do it for you, and send you the bill.

You can drive up to 15 metres from a public road for the purpose of parking without committing an RTA offence. Any further, or if you don't actually park, it's endorsable. Has the highway outside your house been adopted as a public road? Ask the council. If it's not a public road, put up a "PARKING £50" sign. :twisted:

HGVs are not allowed to park on the grass verge without authority ... presumably from the owner of the verge. Endorsable. I can't find any mention of other vehicles being so restricted.

I think you can call the police if you cannot exit your property, but not if you can't get back in.

The council regularly mow my daughter's back garden, which is defined as an "amenity land". :? Mind you, the council think they own it, which has caused some red faces when they see the Land Registry docs.

John W
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby Clifford Pope » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:56 am

If someone has a dropped kerb over the entire frontage of their garden then you would not be obstructing it by parking on part of it, as long as you left sufficient width for vehicle access.
An obstruction of a right of way has to actually be an obstruction, not merely something you can still drive past.
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby jonahinoz » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:31 am

it was a new directive that if you block a driveway and there’s a lowered curb you can be given a ticket.

Hi,

That could be interesting in my street. Residents are gradually getting round to ALL of them dropping their kerbs, over the full width of their frontages. At some point in the future, the entire lengths of the kerbs will be dropped, on both sides. After that, nobody will be able to park anywhere along the road.

John W
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby mugwump » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:46 pm

jonahinoz wrote: it was a new directive that if you block a driveway and there’s a lowered curb you can be given a ticket.

Hi,

That could be interesting in my street. Residents are gradually getting round to ALL of them dropping their kerbs, over the full width of their frontages. At some point in the future, the entire lengths of the kerbs will be dropped, on both sides. After that, nobody will be able to park anywhere along the road.

John W
My close was built that way. All kerbs are dropped, there is no pavement or verge. However people are sensible and do not park where there is a drive but park in all other places.
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby Tarquin » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:41 am

A year gone by from my original post and 3 more neighbours have paved over the verge removing more casual parking. Now when the girl down the roads boyfriend turns up where does he park. Across the parents drive or outside ours? You got it so now when our sons girlfriend turns up she has to find a space 100 yards away and we have to shepherd her back to her car on dark nights.

Anyway, in the scheme of things not the end of the world but we'd still like to know if commandeering these strips of land will enable them to claim ownership after so many years?
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby arborlad » Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:09 pm

Tarquin wrote:Anyway, in the scheme of things not the end of the world but we'd still like to know if commandeering these strips of land will enable them to claim ownership after so many years?




You cannot adversely possess highway, footways and verges will be included in highways. One of the difficulties in your circumstances, either for the one wishing to possess or the one wishing to enforce against it, is the apparent lack of or poor definition between private and highway.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby mr sheen » Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:57 am

There is no such thing as 'on road visitor parking' and whilst you may believe that you have unspoken rules, in reality they don't exist either. Only the landowner can choose to take action against the people changing the fronts, or the council if it is part of the highway....but it is their choice whether or not to take action. Since you have used the term 'our' spaces in inverted commas, you are clearly aware that there is no such thing.

If your driveway isn't big enough for your sons girlfriends car, she can either try to find somewhere to park on a road somewhere if she is lucky.....or she could consider the bus/train/taxi. Millions of properties have no parking any where near them. Or....if your current property's drive is unsuitable for your needs you could move to a property that has a driveway for more cars.
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby Tarquin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:05 am

mr sheen wrote:There is no such thing as 'on road visitor parking' and whilst you may believe that you have unspoken rules, in reality they don't exist either. Only the landowner can choose to take action against the people changing the fronts, or the council if it is part of the highway....but it is their choice whether or not to take action. Since you have used the term 'our' spaces in inverted commas, you are clearly aware that there is no such thing.

If your driveway isn't big enough for your sons girlfriends car, she can either try to find somewhere to park on a road somewhere if she is lucky.....or she could consider the bus/train/taxi. Millions of properties have no parking any where near them. Or....if your current property's drive is unsuitable for your needs you could move to a property that has a driveway for more cars.


Sorry to disappoint you but i'm afraid there is. It's the areas of road where visitors park when they visit the unspoken rule being one of common courtesy which exists in mine but maybe not in your world? The term 'our' does of course acknowledge that we have no legal rights and could if we wish commandeer our grass verge removing another 4 non existent visitor parking spaces but that would be selfish wouldn't it.

Your closing comments are most informative and helpful. So much so that i'm moved to ask, because I feel certain you will know, if you can help with a crossword question i've been struggling with. 7 across, 4 letters, beginning with K - alternative name for a door handle?
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:20 am

Hi Tarquin,

creating these 'extended width driveways' has effectively removed all but a few on road visitor parking spaces...

were these marked out parking spots or are you using creative license to describe what others might call "the roadside"?

if it's the latter then you're mistaken in thinking "mr sheen" is wrong.

realise you that is probably not what you want to hear...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Drop kerb removes on street parking...

Postby Tarquin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:09 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Tarquin,

creating these 'extended width driveways' has effectively removed all but a few on road visitor parking spaces...

were these marked out parking spots or are you using creative license to describe what others might call "the roadside"?

if it's the latter then you're mistaken in thinking "mr sheen" is wrong.

realise you that is probably not what you want to hear...

Kind regards, Mac


Thankyou Mac. I'm happy to hear anything of use in relation to my opening post.

I'm referring to areas of roadside, grass verge, shingle, turf, mud, kerbside, adjacent earth by the highway where visitors be they relatives, law enforcement, doctors or delivery men...or women.....or transgender - pre and post op, may align their mode of transport alongside be it a car, motorcycle, van, lorry, rickshaw or horse and cart, for the purposes of temporary or short term visitation. I'm referring to any and all of the above which when skirted by a boundary line be it floral, evergreen, wall or fence that when removed has allowed the home owner to incorporate land that is not in their ownership into their driveway and in so doing reducing the opportunity for any of the aforementioned the opportunity to alight within reasonable distance of their intended destination. The secondary outcome being to remove all opportunities to park one's own vehicle for fear of blocking the now extended 'drive'.

Now what i'd primarily like to know is not whether the terminology I use is relevant, not whether my sons girlfriend should catch a bus or buy some walking boots but whether having coveted land that does not belong to them the house owner could at any time in the future build a wall or fence at the edge of the driveway that now abuts the road?
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