Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wall?

Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wall?

Postby norfolker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:16 pm

Hi there,

I live in the (right hand, as seen from above) end of an old terrace (+100yrs). My neighbour (to the left of my left internal party wall) has contacted her solicitor to ask me to take down a gate in my back garden saying that it is encroaching on her land.

Our title plans are all rectangular blocks with a straight line running backwards through the front garden, house and back garden and then in my neighbour's case along the side of a garage which sits behind my back garden (belonging to my neighbour on the other side). I had assumed that the boundary of my property would run out into the back garden through the centre of my internal party wall and accordingly the gate sits just inside the centre line of the internal party wall. Of course when you look on the ground the outhouses are all in different places than marked on the plan, making the simple rectangle on the title plan ambiguous and the true boundaries unclear.

My neighbour is claiming that the boundary in fact runs down from the side of the other neighbour's garage (which if offset to the right of my internal party wall by approx 74cm) at the back of my garden and that my garden ends part way through my bathroom window on the back of the house. That seems to be preposterous. Is there any legal/surveying presumption that the boundary of a property runs out into the back garden from the internal party wall which separates two dwellings as opposed to from an outbuilding? It seems obvious to me that the primary item being purchased is the house and that the boundary would naturally follow that, but it would be good to have some backing for that.

Sorry that I can't put the plans up - I did try but the computer isn't liking me! Thank you for any help, it would be very much appreciated!
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby Collaborate » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:34 pm

Your gate is in the middle of a wall, presumably. I can't see how the gate could be in the wrong place but the wall not.

Where does the gate lead to?
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby norfolker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:47 pm

The gate is at right angles to the back wall of the terrace, separating my back garden (on the right) from my neighbour's back garden (on the left).
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby arborlad » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:11 pm

norfolker wrote:
Sorry that I can't put the plans up - I did try but the computer isn't liking me! Thank you for any help, it would be very much appreciated!



You need to make one more post before you are eligible to post images.
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smile...it confuses people
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby norfolker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:18 pm

Oh thanks arborlad! Hopefully this will help then!
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby norfolker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:30 pm

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_lClI ... sp=sharing

That link should take you to the title plan of the neighbouring property
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby norfolker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:32 pm

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_lClI ... sp=sharing

and hopefully this link will take you to a not-to-scale plan which I've quickly sketched to give an idea of the true layout - none of the measurements should be taken as fact, I'm not a chartered surveyor, but I thought it would help if you could see the reason for the predicament

Thanks so much if you can help!
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby Collaborate » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:09 pm

So what you are saying is that there is no wall, just a large gate. Have I got that right?
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby norfolker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:30 pm

That's right, there is no wall, just a fence style gate which then links with a small (15cm) strip of fence style panelling to the side of my shed.

She owns the strip of land immediately in front of my shed. The difficulty we're facing is that she thinks that that line in front of my shed should extend down from her boundary on the side of the garage at the back of my garden, rather than back from the internal party wall separating our dwellings.

Surely a straight line on the title plan (which turns out not to be a straight line in reality) should be taken from the internal party wall, rather than have the result that my garden ends half way through the bathroom window on the back of my house?

Thanks so much
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby Collaborate » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:09 pm

But from the LR plan it seems like you don't own the land between your garden and your shed (I assume you live at no.1 and your neighbour at no.2). So if I've got this right, and your gate is between the corner edge of your house and the corner of your shed, you're not allowed to do that as your neighbour owns that strip of land (that you say is 25cm wide). I struggle to see though how the land will have been divided so as to leave a 25cm strip. That would be virtually unusable.

Is the neighbour's garage to the north the original structure? The plan is not definitive. Perhaps your boundary runs from the corner edge of your house to the corner edge of the garage, and it's the perpendicular line in the plan that is wrong and misleading.

Are the any older features on the ground that could give you a clue?
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby norfolker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:33 pm

Thanks Collaborate.

You're right, I live at 1 and my neighbour at 2 and my neighbour owns the strip of land between my garden and shed. The purpose of that strip is for her to access her back garden which runs adjacent to the garage beyond my garden. The properties are in an old communal row of cottages from the days when all the wives sat together and sewed by candlelight whilst the men were out down the coal mine (at least that's how I imagine it!) when presumably gates/fences weren't high on the priority list.

The gate runs out from my side of the centre line of the internal party wall, then has a narrow strip of panelling running back to the shed, which strip does indeed pass over her property. That though, is not her problem. She claims that the boundary should run in a straight line down from the side of the garage at the back, i.e. my garden boundary passes half way through my downstairs window, (which seems more ludicrous to me than leaving a 25cm strip of land for her garden access) and that I should therefore move my gate back half way across my window.

The garage at the back is the original, it was the old slaughterhouse, with the meat hooks still hanging in the old beams. Unfortunately there aren't any other features to use, all the outbuildings are the originals and none are marked accurately on the LR plan.

You might well be right about the boundary running from corner to corner, which would mean that I would have to angle my gate at the end further away from the back wall of the house. I just seems logical to me that at least the initial part of the garden boundary should continue out along the internal party wall boundary rather than one of the outbuildings when the primary object being sold if, of course, the dwelling...
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby Collaborate » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:41 pm

Do your deeds show that you have a ROW over her strip of land so as to access your shed?
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Re: Garden boundary follows centre line of internal party wa

Postby norfolker » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:44 pm

Yes, one to access both my main shed and my smaller coal shed (in her garden), and then another to access a well at the back of number 3.
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