BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby angryjohn » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:39 pm

GARDENLAW - angry john - Reopened from May 2015 - Changes!


BOUNDARY DISPUTE AND ADVERSE POSSESSION


ONE My back fence was built inside my boundary line to avoid damage to a large old hazel tree leaving a 1 -2 m strip of my land on the ‘wrong side’ of my fence. I have gated access to this land and have maintained it for a number of years.

Neighbour has removed his surveyors boundary maker posts and now claims his land extends to my fence.

Since August, he has been constructing a vehicle track very adjacent to my fence.

WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO STOP HIM? Go to Court?

Refuses to discuss and carries on regardless!


TWO

I’m one of ten bungalow owners that maintain that the other side of the tree-line is our boundary, but I’m the only one with gated access from my land to that strip. My neighbours have a long hike to access the back of their fence through the neighbour’s garden; none have done so.

Now, the back neighbour is preparing to fell the tree-line for his track way and that line would fell my old hazel tree risking damage to retaining walls.

I can only assume he is invoking Adverse Possession.

HOW CAN I CHECK AND STOP HIM FROM DAMAGING MY PROPERTY AT RISK OF LAND SLIP.

WHAT IS PROCEDURE TO INVOKE ADVERSE POSSESSON? References?



THREE

This tree-line and my boundary is on top of a sloping bank within an old colliery.

Our Land Registry Titles show the same line and match a line on OS Map 1877. From 1953 aerial photographs, the tree-line appears too young to be that line on the OS Map 1877!
I have tried to identify on the ground evidence of the line on the OS Map, without success, until neighbours’ August 2015 excavations unearthed an old cut stone retaining wall that I assume to have been done to level and improve agricultural use on an uneven steep hillside; perhaps centuries ago.

The neighbour has excavated a significant part of this retaining wall as part of his Adverse Possession activity.

The track-way is being built along and on top of the exposed old retaining wall; it cannot be suitable for vehicular traffic.


DO I HAVE A REMEDY TO STOP HIM DAMAGING THE WALL THAT NOW EXPOSES SOME OF US TO LAND SLIP? (Buried downhill water course nearby)

Photos, plans available if necessary. Tinypic?

FOUR - Rather too long forum question - will it cost me?


Being pointed in the right direction would help me.
angryjohn
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:49 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby Collaborate » Tue Sep 22, 2015 7:20 pm

Check your house insurance for legal cover.

You have to take it to court if you want to stop him. You've tried speaking to him to no avail.

There's plenty of resources available online re AP. This is one: http://www.propertylawuk.net/boundaries ... ssion.html

The sooner you act the better.
Collaborate
 
Posts: 1123
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:17 am

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby angryjohn » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:02 pm

Thanks - A solicitor has always been the really only route.
angryjohn
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby Roblewis » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:08 pm

I am afraid an injunction is the first resort pending any settlement of the boundary issue. He has no adverse possession rights but is trying to claim the area as his. You need to start gathering evidence that indeed the hedge formed the boundary or the retaining wall was the original marker. All of you need to repel the boarder
Roblewis
 
Posts: 1764
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:41 pm

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby angryjohn » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:40 pm

The issue was first raise in 2008 and my approach to three local solicitors declined on conflict of interest. I have photographic evidence of the site as it developed - construction off rejected application wheeze.

I feel that I have a strong case but costs may be prohibitive; I did not take legal cover - a bit late insuring after the event!

My main defence is that their boundary markers, some distance from my fence, 'disappeared' before the land grab began - similar gains have been on all of their three boundaries; aggressive spats - even on my door step, barbed wire to prevent my access and two complaints to the CSPO; it's challenging against a loaded field; bought the land from the LA as employee, community councillor and a net-worker par excellence but for self gain only.

Is it possible to check a public register of brown field grants for development of disused industrial sites; here, a coal pit - for this costly development. There are interesting audit trails to meeting planning approval conditions! Thanks
angryjohn
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby COGGY » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:44 pm

Hi
On another subject on this site the advice was given to look on Google Earth to see if any evidence could be found there. Would this advice help you? It would only be relevant if there is a road near the area under dispute. I hope this helps.
Coggy
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby cleo5 » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:05 pm

First make certain of your original boundary by checking your deeds and see if anything is written there( if you have them) or your LR title plan and if that strip is yours then keep using it.

What was along the boundary when you first bought the place?

Download your neighbours title plan from the Land Registry site to see if it makes things any clearer. This costs £3.50 or so.

If the neighbour is trying to take it by adverse possession and has not made any application to the land registry then you, as the paper owner, are now keeping/retaking possession of it and he will not be able to register it with the Land Registry as when the ten years are up. he needs to have undisputed use of it to exclusion of everyone else in order to claim AP. As long as you keep using it then he can't do this.

Find yourself a solicitor who is well versed in land/boundary/ stuff. Try the RICS for free advice. They will put you in touch with someone who will give you 30mins free advice.Google and you will find a firm in Southampton who have a lot of info on the subject of boundary disputes on their website.

If you are unsure of where the boundary lies then have a surveyor, who deals with APcases) come out and compare your land with old maps and examine your deeds to determine where boundary lies. This will cost you. (anything from £270 to £600.)
Aerial photographs are useful in deeterming old boundaries. These are not cheap.

Don't worry about the legal insurance that you haven't got but do check your house ins policy to make sure it isn't included without you realising it. Also check credit cards to see if it is included on those.
But in some instances one may actually have it only to find when you really need it they wriggle out of it saying they don't cover neighbour disputes.
Get some advce and take out insurance with a reliable firm which covers all legal matters. It might be useful in the future. Read the small print

Face the neighbour once you have determined exactly where your boundary lies and tell him to keep off your land .
You can take out an injuction against him for around £150.00 plus solicitor fee,

You can obtain a copy of the original planning application of yours/his properties from the local council's historic planning department. This costs about between £5 and £35. ?
How long have you owned the property ?
If he has only being doing this since 2008 then he has not had enough time to take it by adverse possession.
cleo5
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby angryjohn » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:35 pm

Appreciate detailed reply - I can see no validity in neighbour's argument - he's going to his own thing - regardless, but will cause damage. Will approach local solicitor.
angryjohn
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby ukmicky » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:37 am

Boundary markers.

Its probably not but Is your boundary a determined boundary under section 60 of the Land Registration Act . It will say on your deeds.

If it is, its an offence to remove the markers
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
ukmicky
 
Posts: 4545
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:13 pm
Location: London

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby arborlad » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:35 pm

angryjohn wrote:GARDENLAW - angry john - Reopened from May 2015 - Changes!



You really would help yourself and those trying to assist by continuing this thread and asking Admin to merge them: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19973




FOUR - Rather too long forum question - will it cost me?



Relax - the forum is free to all users :)
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7385
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby cleo5 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:15 pm

Arborlad,
Do you mean continue on this thread or the one you have given a link to? I think the OP posted again as he seemed to have lost his post in the recent post muddle up.

AngryJohn,
Having just seen pictures on your other thread it would seem to me that the original boundary is along the line of the hawthorns.
Why did you put your fence up so far in front of the hawthorns and the natural dip in the land? Looks like originally there was a bit of a stone wall there.
Why not shift your fence back to the hawthorns and if the neighbour says anything just say" my fence/my land and N--- Off."
It also says on part of your plan something about" boundary to be decided by local planning"(unless I've misread it) so they are the ones to put you straight. Ask to see original planning /drawings/ application and consent.

Many solicitors offer an intial half hour consulatation for free.
cleo5
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby arborlad » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:36 pm

cleo5 wrote:Arborlad,Do you mean continue on this thread or the one you have given a link to?.



Preferably, the one linked to, it contains all the background and history, plans and photos etc., additionally, anyone who has posted on that thread will get an e-mail alert. Now I think the two threads need merging.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7385
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby angryjohn » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:22 pm

Local solicitor - conflict of interest - injunction costs prohibitive - to resort to Land Registry procedures.

From the closure of the pit in 1966, there has been no marked surface boundary, other than the debris of the RH concrete post/wire fence. Our site was not marked out other than the footings of the next pair of dwellings - 2004 to 2008, but developer stated boundary other side of tree line - in decay.

The upper site was cleared from 1986 and remained fallow -endemic knotweed. Although bought by present owners in 2006, the field was not staked until 2008 before construction approved 12/2008. This is my first recollection of the red daubed wooden post boundary markers around the site (their own or L A surveyors)- all 1 to 2 m from fence. These posts 'disappeared' as did my replacement, then the aggro began., verbal, barbed wire, police complaints, doorstepped, claiming fence as his boundary, dare I say it, rage management difficulties?

Neighbour began construction of track very adjacent to fence line end August 2015. Today, replaced their original title plan with new plan with a replacement public roadway taken from outline planning of 2004; Their 2008 planning app public access FP29 now shown to be (private?) gated access. His Sept 2015 construction exposed the buried old agricultural wall - it was buried as a slope between sites in mining days. It occupies about 1 m. at top edge of slope/bank uphill of the tree line. Much of the slope is made coal dust spoil that breaks under my weight - not suitable for traffic.

I am OK with situation as he removed his surveyors posts and sought my vendors view of boundary and wrongly applied it to gain more space for the roadway. L A of no help.

I really appreciate all responses, especially as things emerged out of sequence as we went along - should have gone BBC Time Team!

I have copies of deeds, long history evidence of photos - to prepare case and persuade other neighbours to support our positiion - we all stand to lose a long line trees that provide privacy - 15 m from patio. Neighbours from hell with the attitude of Ghengis Khan.

Thanks and a very useful GardenLaw forum
angryjohn
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: BOUNDARY DISPUTE, ADVERSE POSSESSION

Postby jonahinoz » Mon Oct 05, 2015 8:31 am

Hi Angry John

Could your row of trees be eligible for a Tree Protection Order?

There is something in my mind about Ancient Hedgerows on the edge of village settlements being protected, but I know nothing more than that.

As this roadway is outside the environs of a dwelling (I assume), does it have Permitted Development rights? Surely there is a limit to the area of new vehicle track allowed under PD rights?

Would the RSPB be interested in the loss of habitat for their little friends?

The developer has exposed ancient walls. Would an Archeological Jobsworth be interested? The development of an ASDA Superstore in the Swansea Valley was delayed when they exposed some ancient brickwork.

If the developer is interfering with surface drainage, should there be an Environmental Impact report.

Would this development cross any drains, or services to/from your properties?

Life is so much easier if you can persuade somebody with clout to do the job for you ... I'm sorry to say.

John W
jonahinoz
 
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:15 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Return to Boundaries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests