Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby GardenerGB » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:30 pm

Hi,

I wonder whether you can advise me.

Our neighbours’ house is located back from ours in a position so the side wall of their property is one side of our garden. They currently have a small boiler flue coming though this wall into our garden. Whilst we do not like this, we have covered this to a large degree with wisteria. They have advised us that they are replacing their boiler and they have asked access to our garden in order to put a black pipe to run along the side wall of their house, back into their garden.

The issues we see are:
a) We are not sure of our rights – can we just say “no” to this?
b) We cannot see how we could cover this pipe as it would be clearly visible as soon as we come out of our back door and onto the patio area, adjacent to their wall.
c) We cannot see how this pipe would be installed as we currently have a wisteria (believed to be 8 years old) climbing on this wall and around the existing boiler flue. Would we be forced to chop it off?

We love our garden and have spent time, effort and a lot of time to transform it. The last thing we want is to feel that we cannot enjoy our garden as we may feel that the pipe might be an eye sore.

Am I right to believe that the wall itself is the boundary and anything added to the wall could be causing a trespass of our space?

What would you do in our case?

Your advice would be very much appreciated. Thank you so much!
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby confused3 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:06 pm

I think the first issue is that you should not be attaching our growing anything on your neighbours wall/house.

Depending how long the existing flue has been there I think you may struggle to have it removed, at the same time I don't think you need to allow your neighbour to install a new larger length of flue "in your garden".
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby Collaborate » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:16 pm

I agree with confused3.

They can remove your wisteria. They could also simply replace the flue with another one, although I'm not sure they could force access to the property under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act, as they'd have to show it to be essential maintenance.
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby pilman » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:13 pm

The idea that the neighbour's house wall is now part of your garden so that you want to stop replacement of a boiler flue, is just completely wrong.

When houses are constructed in this way there is often a mention in the deeds that all overhangs, gutters etc are legitimate easements, especially if a single developer developed the houses as part of a development scheme. It may also state in the deeds that there is a right of access to maintain such parts of the neighbour's house that cannot be reached except from your property.

I also consider that if the neighbours need to replace an existing boiler that has to have a flue into the air space above your garden, then that will be considered essential maintenance, so in that respect I cannot agree with Collaborate's last posting.
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby cleo5 » Thu Sep 24, 2015 4:51 pm

I once lived in a silmilar type of house a terraced and stepped house so know the type you mean.

Surely the part of the house wall jutting out is your neighbour's house wall and ,unless he agreed to it, you should not have trained your wistaria up his wall. If the wisteria blocks the outlet then that could be hazardous.

If a new pipe will interfere with your wisteria then you will simply have to prune it right down and train it as a standardwith the fronds over your garden. It will grow up very quickly as it responds well to drastic pruning.

As for the pipe . His wall/his pipe -so surely he can put what he wants and he is obviously trying to find a solution to the problem so that you are not bothered by anything puffed out from his pipe.

It was surely a mistake on behalf of architects/builders/houseowners to site it where it is anyway.

On the other hand if he needs a new boiler perhaps it could be placed against that part of the wall that faces his own garden rather than on the side that faces yours and a new hole in the wall made to accommodate the pipe. Depending of course on where the boiler is in his kitchen.

If your relations with the neighbour are good then it would be a pity to spoil things over a bit of piping.
How high up from the ground is the present pipe?
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby GardenerGB » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:26 pm

Thank you for replying so quickly to my post.

Please allow me to clarify that we are not asking to remove the existing boiler flue neither we have objections to its replacement as we have learnt to live with it despite its healthy fumes. But we cannot help feeling unhappy about the additional pipe (as an extension of the flue), which will run across their wall above our garden patio area and through a gap into their garden. Although from a health point of view this may be better, the pipe will run above our patio wall, which is adjacent to their wall. The main issue we have is the aesthetics of it as the black pipe will be visible from the back kitchen/diner door. Also we are not sure if this will stop us in the future from extending our kitchen onto our patio as their pipe will be there.

Their kitchen is in the middle of their property (hence flue into our garden) and I assume it is a money issue for them to place the new boiler at the back.

Although we understand that they need to maintain their property, please understand that we will also have to live with this. We are in good terms with all our neighbours and we never had any issues with anyone. We do try to accommodate and find solutions hence my post here. Perhaps this is a trivial issue as life is indeed too short and we have not got any intentions to fall over this with our neighbours however everybody wants to be happy in their home and we are trying to find a medium for both of us.

As for the wisteria, we had permission from the previous neighbours and no, it does not block the outlet. It is pruned regularly to keep it small but we were thinking of the future issues here so I see your point.

There is no development scheme ... these are old Victorian houses. Their boiler is 20-25 years old. I hope this is clear.

Good point with the deeds. Will check these later.

Forgive me but I find myself a bit more confused than before as some of your responses contradict but I welcome all thoughts.

Thank you again for your time. Very much appreciated.
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby GardenerGB » Thu Sep 24, 2015 5:29 pm

Sorry to reply to your question, I forgot to mention that the boiler flue is about 1.70-1.80 m from the ground.
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby Eliza » Thu Sep 24, 2015 6:35 pm

I would be seeing this as two separate issues personally.

1. On the one hand its their wall and the law seems clear about nothing being allowed on someone else's wall (in this case the wisteria).

2. But - on the other hand - that pipe would be in space that is owned by you if it comes through (ie your garden) and that wouldn't be allowed - as its YOUR airspace over YOUR garden.

Is there a way to work within those parameters whereby you keep that wisteria on their wall - but no more of "your" space is taken up than currently with their proposed new pipe?
Apologies for not giving exact personal details in my posts - you never know who is reading....
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby COGGY » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:50 pm

We have a neighbour's flu venting into our garden. It has acquired rights through time. However I believe it is no longer permitted to instal this type of flu into a neighbouring garden. A few years ago our son had a similar flu venting into the neighbours garden. When the boiler was replaced he was required to change the venting. The fumes from boilers are a health hazard and new conditions were put in place a few years ago now.

I agree that you should not be growing anything up your neighbour's wall. Any damage caused will be your responsibility.

I would suggest that you look on google for information on venting boilers onto a neighbouring property. There is plenty of help available there.
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby Collaborate » Thu Sep 24, 2015 8:25 pm

My further reading on the subject has lead me to agree with Pilman as to replacement of pipes being permitted under the Act. I therefore do not doubt that they would be able to replace a short outlet pipe.

However Coggy's post raises a very interesting point - I agree that an easement over a few inches of land may not mean that many years later that easement can extend to fitting a long pipe snaking round the side of the house. It may well be they cannot replace the boiler by siting it there and still comply with modern legislation. So if you refuse permission of the exhaust extension they may have to resite it elsewhere.
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby despair » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:26 pm

In the shoes of the op i would most certainly not be happy to have this flue changed to a long black pipe snaking round the corner

I do not think they can do that and i think new rules on boiler flues would prevent it venting into your space

You need to check via several boiler installers
As to it being a cost issue if they bother to employ someone who knows what they are doing i doubt altering position would add much to the bill
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby Collaborate » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:55 pm

Obviously there is no reason why the pipe cannot run through the inside of their house.
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Re: Neighbour's Wall/ Our Garden

Postby COGGY » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:21 pm

Hi
Speaking as someone who has a neighbour's flu venting through their boundary wall into our garden, plus a gas pipe supply pipe running along the outside of their boundary wall, in our garden, I would say a resounding NO. We bought into this situation and admittedly were not bothered about it for many years. Now we have realised how bad the smell of the fumes can be and have taken steps (at some financial cost to ourselves) to redirect these fumes along their wall towards their window. They obviously do not appreciate the fumes as they keep this window closed considerably more than previously. In fact they called the Enforcement Officer out to inspect what we had done. He was perfectly happy that it was safe and nothing is attached to their wall. They also sent a Gas engineer round, he also was satisfied. Even so I would advise anyone to protect themselves from gas fumes and supply pipes. Our own gas supply pipe is laid underground (British Gas used a "mole"). We still have to be careful of the neighbour's pipe. It was a hard lesson to learn but I advise anyone to protect their own property and own health.
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