Who owns the river bank?

Who owns the river bank?

Postby gilesyw » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:24 pm

My garden backs on to a small beck running through the village. I have a dry stone boundary wall beyond which lies the river bank which is approximately 15ft wide (unless it's been very wet when it dwindles to nothing). It's left to its own devices and is totally wild.

I've recently had a leylandii hedge along that boundary removed and its opened up the river bank. I'd like to maintain it in an ecologically sensitive manner but don't know who I'd approach about doing so. Do I have riparian rights over it?

I'm only looking to control the bramble and perhaps increase the diversity of the herbaceous ground cover, so no one would object. I'm just curious as to the actual facts.

Here's a sketch illustrating the basic arrangement.Image



Thanks!
gilesyw
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:29 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby mr sheen » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:37 pm

Try maintaining it and see what happens...probably nothing....or someone may come and tell you it's theirs and to leave it alone but until that time arrives.....
mr sheen
 
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby gilesyw » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:02 am

I'm sure I will, still curious about the legalities though. There's always a jobsworth or two in this village!
gilesyw
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:29 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby mr sheen » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:02 pm

It's irrelevant if the jobsworths complain because only the legal owner can get an injunction against you to stop you. People in the village may well say all sorts but unless they can prove they have greater claim to it than you, there is nothing they can do about it.
They may contact the Environment Agency or other similar agency who may well have a legal claim to it and may ask you to leave it alone...in which case personally, I would leave it alone since they have a bigger budget than most individuals and Govt Agencies tend to defend their assets aggressively.
mr sheen
 
Posts: 2093
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:33 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby arborlad » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:34 am

gilesyw wrote:I have a dry stone boundary wall beyond which lies the river bank............




If that statement is correct then you own nothing beyond the wall, perhaps not even the wall.

Ownership in these circumstances is a moot point, nobody would be allowed to block or impede the flow of water, do you know if this river forms part of the local flood relief scheme, which would be under the control of the Environment Agency. Maybe the best guide to what can or can't be done is to look upstream and downstream and see what others have done.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7386
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby gilesyw » Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:43 am

Thanks both.
gilesyw
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:29 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby cleo5 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:59 am

If you own the wall and if it is your boundary as per your deeds then and there is specific wordng about your riperian rights then yes you can maintain the stream bank. But if not then no.
I have what was a mill stream bordering the bottom of my land, there is little of the original wall on my side remaining and my deeds specifically mention that my land extends to the centre of the stream. This stream ,like your beck, gets low in hot weather. The council maintains the other bank and grass beyond and clears out the stream occasonally.
As others have said you could do what you want and see what happens.
cleo5
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby ukmicky » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:48 pm

The chances are the wall was simply put up to close off your garden from the river and you will own the river bank and your legal boundary will be halfway across the river. .


What you need to do is look at you title plan . If the red line ends at the wall the river bank is not your responsibility. If it ends at the river you are the riparian owner and own up to the centre of the river.

If it is the case you need to be careful what you do because if you destabilise the bank you could end up with the river during flood eroding the bank.

There is a government booklet , I will find and link for you
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
ukmicky
 
Posts: 4546
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby ukmicky » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:29 pm

Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
ukmicky
 
Posts: 4546
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby gilesyw » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:30 pm

Thanks - I've seen the Government book actually and it doesn't make things much clearer, but what some have said....depends where the deed line is....does; the red line follows the wall. That's fine with me!
gilesyw
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:29 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby pilman » Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:58 am

Land Registry publish Practice Guides which are guidance notes about most aspects of land registration procedures.

There is one about boundaries and the legal presumptions regarding property next to roads or rivers.

The red line drawn on a title plan is only ever an indication of the general boundary, which often uses a permanent boundary marker shown on the Ordnance Survey map, that will not show the full extent of the land being conveyed next to a road or water course.

After reading the published Practice Guide 40, the Original Poster may have a better understanding of what legal presumption could apply to his particular set of circumstances.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... esumptions
pilman
 
Posts: 2840
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby cleo5 » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:19 pm

My boundary line in red also goes alonside the wall on the LR title planplan yet in fact my land extends to middle of stream as stated in deeds.
It is possible this is so in your case so that bank may well be yours. https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... sibilities
cleo5
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby pilman » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:32 pm

One thing to verify would be to use the Land Registry web-site for Search a Property and use the map search facility.

Place the circle over the stream next to your house and see if another title is indicated, as well as your own.

If another title is mentioned spend £3 and buy a copy of the title plan to see if this is property on the other side of the stream or this other title plan included the stream itself.

Always best to undertake some research that only costs a few pounds before taking on tasks that could result in costly difficulties in the future.
pilman
 
Posts: 2840
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby gilesyw » Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:25 am

Thanks again,

Cleo - that's the exact scenario here too.

Pilman - thanks. I've placed a 5m circle over the beck and nothing comes up. When I place a 10m circle over the beck, my property shows up. I'll download the title plan and see what it looks like.
gilesyw
 
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:29 pm

Re: Who owns the river bank?

Postby pilman » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:15 am

The other way of finding out about that stream is to complete a SIM form downloadable from the Land Registry web-site and using a copy of your own title plan, show the extent of the land you want investigated to include the land on the other side of the stream from your own property.

Send off the form to Land Registry Citizen Centre PO Box 6350 Coventry CV3 9LP with a cheque for £4 to have a Search of the Index Map made.

You will receive back a plan showing the land that is registered with the title numbers indicated and the land that is currently unregistered also identified.

If the stream is unregistered then there is more probably a chance that you can claim to own up to the mid point using the legal presumption.

If it is registered then you can spend another £3 on the Search a Property site by typing in the title number. This will enable you to contact the registered owner to discuss allowing you to maintain the land between your wall and the stream.
pilman
 
Posts: 2840
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:08 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 
Next

Return to Boundaries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests