Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help pleas

Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help pleas

Postby loveka » Sat Nov 14, 2015 6:52 pm

The house next door has been sold, and the new neighbour has told us that he plans to build an extension in line with the current house right up to the boundary.

He says our garden is 8 inches wider than the land registry plans show, and wants this land back. We have told him that the plans are unclear, and that as we have lived here for 16 years and the fence to the side of the garden has not been moved in that time then we have adverse possession of this 8 inch wide strip of land. He wants to take this further, so we have taken legal advice and been advised to pay for a surveyor to look at the situation.

Even if our adverse possession is allowed, he will still want to build up to the current boundary. This I am pretty sure would mean using our garden for the building work. Also, the gutters would still overhang our property, which I believe is not allowed?

To avoid all this, if he built a narrower extension then it would all, including gutters, be contained within his land. But he is adamant that he will build up to the boundary line.

He is not getting planning permission as he says his plans fall within permitted development. But if he does this, our garden presumably will be damaged by the digging of foundations, even if he manages to build the extension without coming on our land.

The boundary is currently a fence which has climbing roses on it. If he builds right up to the boundary the fence and roses presumably will have to go? Can he really force us to do this?

I am so worried about all this. Our garden is really small as it is, and the whole of one side will be a huge bare wall. I would really appreciate some advice please.

I was wondering if this might be covered by the party wall act, but I can't work it out! Does the fact that the foundations would be beneath our land have any bearing?

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby despair » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:33 pm

Your neighbour is clearly a bully intent on railroading you

1) the fence has been in situ for over 16 yrs .............Take photos
get statements from other neighbours and former owner's

2) check with planning dept as to exactly what and how much he can extend by using PD rights
Irrespective he will need Building Regs

3) if foundations are to dug and are within certain distance from your house or will be deeper than your foundations then yes he needs to use Party Wall Act

You are entitled to your own PWA surveyor entirely at his expense ...........INSIST on it

The foundations oversite , gutters , fascias etc will indeed be trespassing and that's not allowed

Check very very carefully all House Insurances , credit cards ,union memberships for Legal Expenses Cover

Installl CCTV because if your at work you need proof of any trespass etc

Stand firm theres not a land registry plan in the country that is accurate to 8 inches

all are + or _ 20 inches

its whats on the ground now that matters
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby loveka » Sat Nov 14, 2015 8:07 pm

I tried to attach the plans but it said the attachment quota had been reached!
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby arborlad » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:16 pm

despair wrote: theres not a land registry plan in the country that is accurate to 8 inches

all are + or _ 20 inches



arborlad wrote:
despair wrote:Actually boundaries are considered to be plus or minus 20 inches in law


Correcting you is getting very tiresome :roll:



Conveyancer wrote:Can we please get away from the idea that boundaries on LR plans are accurate to within 20 inches or indeed any other length? It may be the case that, according to scale, the OS plan is only accurate to within a certain distance and that the lines on the plan necessarily must have thickness.
[/quote]
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby arborlad » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:23 pm

loveka wrote:The boundary is currently a fence which has climbing roses on it. If he builds right up to the boundary the fence and roses presumably will have to go? Can he really force us to do this?



Who owns the fence?
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby loveka » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:41 pm

I have no idea who owns the fence legally. I know the people we bought the house from put it up, as they told us this. However it does not say this anywhere on the deeds.
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby jonahinoz » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:03 am

Can we please get away from the idea that boundaries on LR plans are accurate to within 20 inches or indeed any other length?

Hi,

Land Registry told me that they were required to use OS maps. OS told me that their maps only show topographical features, not boundaries ... but were unable to explain how a my neighbours "topographical feature", a fence with a dog-leg, shown on historical maps as a boundary with a dog-leg, was now shown as a straight line. The difference in boundary position was about 1.5m, and the fence was still followed it's original line. There was no topographical feature, other than a fence with a dog-leg.

I once visited my Planning Office, watched a Planning Officer alter an OS map on his VDU, by adding a planning consent boundary. I got the impression that he was going to send the ammended plan back to LR.

Loveka, how old is your house? Is it likely that your LA have the original planning application? Or if your neighbour's house is younger ... same question? Do you have any drains running along that side of your house? Is your neighbour claiming that the boundary is 8" out over it's full length. Have you checked your neighbours LR record? Could the ownership of the boundary be marked on his plan? Perhaps possible if one house was built in the garden of the other.

Arguing over the location of a boundary can cost both parties many tens of thousands of pounds. Are you any good at stud poker?

Experts, Once the extension has been built, can the neighbour demand the right to access the side of his house for maintenance?

John W
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby arborlad » Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:31 am

loveka wrote:I have no idea who owns the fence legally. I know the people we bought the house from put it up, as they told us this. However it does not say this anywhere on the deeds.



Are you still in contact with them, can you get them to put that in writing.

If the neighbour is claiming a further 8" beyond the fence it seems fairly clear he is also claiming ownership of the fence, what type of fence is it?
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby loveka » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:42 am

Both houses were built in 1888. The extension to his house was built in the 1920's, in part of our house's garden (which the then owners sold to the people in the house next door). The extension the new owner wants is making the 1920s extension longer, covering all but 2 feet of his back garden.

The fence is lap panels with trellis on top.

We have legal cover on our house insurance, and have spoken to their helpline. Will proving adverse possession really cost 10's of thousands of pounds? The boundary has been like that for at least 18 years! When we told him about the adverse possession law the neighbour offered us a 'financial attorney's.

There are 2 problems really.
One is the adverse poseession.

The other is that he wants to build right up to whatever boundary is established, and we believe this will mean gutters etc will overhang our land. Also that this will mean him using our land for building work. How, if he has no planning, can we stop him doing this?

He has already built an extension without building regs or entering a party wall act thingy(and in that case the party wall act would definitely have applied) on his current house. He doesn't use architects or surveyors and uses foreign labour who I think would not question what he asked them to do. He treated the builders really badly I thought on his last extension- irrelevant I know.
The point I am making is no one 'official' will ever see the plans before he starts.
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby loveka » Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:51 am

Oh and yes we have both land registry plans. The boundary is shown as a straight line. An architect told is that it is possible that the next door extension was built 8 inches over the boundary OR that our garden is 8 inches too wide, but that we could never know which.

He seemed to think we have a case for adverse possession.

We can contact the previous owners. We also have lots of photos, not of the boundary, but showing it.
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby MacadamB53 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:18 pm

Hi loveka,

Will proving adverse possession...

is it an accepted truth that the fence was erected in the wrong place, or are you supposing you could claim AP if backed into a corner?

what evidence has he put forward to support his claim?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby loveka » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:02 pm

Sorry Mac I don't understand the question. The architect who came and looked at it said it could be either that the fence was put up in the wrong position, or their extension was built too wide, he said it was impossible to tell.

The boundary is shown on the plan as a straight line. But the actual boundary is 8 inches wider in our garden.

Is it not that the physical boundary which has existed for at least 18 years is the actual boundary? Or can he now claim this land is his, even though it has always been ours?
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby loveka » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:05 pm

His evidence is the land registry plans.
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby arborlad » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:30 pm

loveka wrote:Both houses were built in 1888. The extension to his house was built in the 1920's, in part of our house's garden (which the then owners sold to the people in the house next door).



Do you have any documentation for this, I believe the amount of land sold would have to be more than the currently contested 8".

If your neighbour thought there were any errors or omissions in the property he was buying, the time to sort them would have been with the vendor pre-purchase, not at some point in the future when finds he has insufficient land for his purpose............likewise the current fence, the time to take action on any trespass or encroachment is as soon as you become aware of it, the then landowner saw nothing amiss for the last16/18 years.
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Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby MacadamB53 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 2:21 pm

Hi loveka,

the actual boundary is 8 inches wider in our garden.

given that a boundary is an invisible line which is found where the limits of one legal estate abut another, I'm not sure what you meant by the above - would you mind clarifying?

Kind regards, Mac
PS architects are not surveyors...
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