Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help pleas

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby despair » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:08 pm

Make very sure you also involve your local councillor too
despair
 
Posts: 16044
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:07 am

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby arborlad » Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:36 am

loveka wrote:We are just putting our objection on the permitted development up on the website.

I read somewhere that permitted development has to be on your own land, but can't find it on anywhere 'official' to quote it in our objection. Can anyone help please? Thanks.



All development has to be on your own land, it doesn't matter whether it is permitted or permission has to be applied for.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7387
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby jonahinoz » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:23 am

Hi,

My understanding is that the Planners do not care who owns the land, but I think you have to say that you have notified the owner ... or maybe that is only agricultural land. ??? The details may be spelled out on the Planning Application proforma.

Permitted Development for residential use can only be within the environs of an existing dwelling ... maybe not necessarily YOUR dwelling. A garage would be PD within environs of a house, but not in the field/yard/back-lane/etc adjacent.

John W
jonahinoz
 
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:15 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby MacadamB53 » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:50 pm

jonahinoz wrote:Hi,

My understanding is that the Planners do not care who owns the land, but I think you have to say that you have notified the owner ... or maybe that is only agricultural land. ??? The details may be spelled out on the Planning Application proforma.

Permitted Development for residential use can only be within the environs of an existing dwelling ... maybe not necessarily YOUR dwelling. A garage would be PD within environs of a house, but not in the field/yard/back-lane/etc adjacent.

John W

Hi John W,

what you've described is pretty much on the mark.

planning consent is given for WHAT is being proposed, not WHO is making the proposal or who owns the land concerned.

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6038
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby Roblewis » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:19 pm

It is rather odd though to rely on permitted development and build a garage in your neighbours garden. I think permitted development has to within the curtilage of a premises claiming the right and cannot thus encompass more than the premises for which the development is made
Roblewis
 
Posts: 1764
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:41 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby MacadamB53 » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:26 pm

Hi loveka,

in your last posting you confirmed you were in the process of submitting an objection to the neigbbour's proposal - which means he has applied for planning permission - because the LPA advised him it didn't qualify as PD (due to size of footprint?)

so I'm unsure why you're asking about what does or doesn't qualify as 'permitted development' with regards to 'within the curtilage of a dwellinghouse'.

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6038
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby arborlad » Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:46 pm

loveka wrote:I disagree! She said (tongue-in-cheek) that we could apply to build on our neighbours garden, the council could give us the go ahead, then it would be up to the neighbour to stop us. It's not very joined up I don't think. It seems to force legal battles, as ours will probably end up being, and costing someone money to sort out. Whereas if the council just said 'can you prove you own this land?' it might stop people trying to claim land is not theirs!



Can you not see the irony there? If your neighbour decides to build a ten foot high fence on your land, planning may take action on the red element because it will fall within their remit, they cannot take action on the blue element because it doesn't fall within their remit.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7387
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby jonahinoz » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:23 am

Roblewis wrote:It is rather odd though to rely on permitted development and build a garage in your neighbours garden. I think permitted development has to within the curtilage of a premises claiming the right and cannot thus encompass more than the premises for which the development is made


Hi Rob,

Yes, you are right, according to my 1988 version of the Act, PD refers ... to the provision within the curtilage of a dwelling house of any building ...... required for a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of THE dwelling house :oops:

So my neighbour would have to let me build the house in his garden, for his enjoyment, then decide to let me occupy it. Or, if he allowed me to occupy part of his garden, documented or other wise, or sold me a part of his garden, would it then be considered to be part of my curtilage? All very contrived, and probably academic.

But what if the developer assumed PD, believing the area being built on was part of his curtilage, and a neighbour claimed it was part of their curtilage. Development goes ahead without the developer requesting confirmation of PD rights, and only the location of the boundary making the difference between PD and not-PD. Would the Planners want to get involved? At best, they will only get a planning fee.

602
jonahinoz
 
Posts: 1346
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:15 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby loveka » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:34 pm

Hello again...

Well, this goes on and on. I nearly put the house on the market this week because this guy next door is being such a pain. He is causing huge stress and upset. He now says he is going to build an inch behind the boundary so he doesn't have to pay party wall surveyors.

He is refusing to accept the boundary on the ground is the legal boundary. He wants to go to court.

From what I have read and been told on this forum I am 100% sure the boundary as it has stood for the 17 years we have been here is the boundary. My partner really doesn't want us to go to court though. But the alternative is to give him land which is ours, which currently has our plants planted in it. He says he has asked a surveyor to determine the boundary, but is awaiting a response.

On another note he is saying that he wants to take down the boundary fence in the front garden and replace it. He says this is his fence, as that is the way the fences go in our road. I am not sure this is legal? There is nothing in either set of deeds about ownership of fences, no T or H marks. The fence was there when we moved in.

We don't mind him replacing the fence, but I strongly suspect it will be a horrible fence! It is currently the same as the other fences around the perimeter of our property. I really don't want to get into yet another argument with him. Can I at least have a say in the type of fence?

How can we avoid going to court over this?
loveka
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby COGGY » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:56 pm

Hi
Make sure you have absolute proof of the position of the front fence now. He may well plan to take it down and put a new fence up on your land. Take lots and lots of photos.
Coggy
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby ParallelLines » Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:45 pm

Loveka,

I have had many of the same issues with my house so I do sympathize. It does end up feeling like a game of cat and mouse at times.

What you have to understand is that the PP is only one half of it if you like and when the building work starts things start to swing back much more in your favour.

You can't force your neighbour to issue a PWA notice but if he doesn't issue one he can't put foundations on your land without consent nor can he work on your side. Were he to do either of those things you can apply for a court injunction to stop this unlawful action.

If after taking legal advice if you obtained an injunction your neighbour would be left with a hefty legal bill and you would get some damages too. However this is clearly a last resort and nearly all the time a solicitors letter before work commences would do the trick.

I wouldn't worry about the Party Wall Act atall though because you have the same protection under common law anyway.

Regarding the boundary, if you google the Anna Friel case you can see that you can see that damages or removal can be enforced in these situations. Again it's not something to be welcomed but were the neighbour to build on your side you could be looking at a big payout. Because of this, these guys often back off when push comes to shove. Or it could be possible he is right and you might have to accept it. What I am saying is that it's important to keep an open mind even if you think your case is very good incase he knows something you don't.

Don't forget another option is you could sell him that slither of land if it is indeed yours. It would at least be a compromise of sorts.

The other thing is if the issue is not settled he wouldn't be able to sell or even raise a mortgage on it, so you do have a lot of leverage potentially.

As regards the fence again it's a tricky one. Be aware that he can put up any sort of fence he likes inside the boundary so it's important to be tactful about the situation. I even read you can build a 3m wall. If he removes the existing one it might be costly to prove it's yours. So I would go carefully and be as nice as you can about it. Ofcourse you can put your own fence inside your boundary too.

Bottom line is you should be strong about the boundary you think is yours but don't make it look like you are trying to stop his building. Try and say you are worried for his sake.
ParallelLines
 
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby violetqueen » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:01 am

Hi OP - how are things going ?
violetqueen
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:57 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby COGGY » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:24 pm

I think this has been continued under

New discussion about old issue.
by loveka » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:23 pm
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby violetqueen » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:40 pm

Thanks Coggi ,I hadn't noticed !
violetqueen
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:57 pm

Re: Neighbour disputing boundary, building extension. Help p

Postby arborlad » Tue Mar 29, 2016 11:58 am

Taken from here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20248

loveka wrote:I am also considering writing to the neighbour today. Just to explain our position yet again, and attaching the statement we have from the people we bought the house from (which he has not seen).



Did a paid professional advise you to withhold that statement, it doesn't seem to have been in your best interests to do so.



loveka wrote:I though I would start a new thread, as the old one had several different queries in it and so is a bit confusing. Thanks so much for your advice so far, it really has been invaluable and I am really grateful.



.......again, not in your best interests to start a new thread - there's nothing remotely confusing about this one. What is confusing matters now is having the discussion fragmented and disjointed between two threads.............best to stick to this one where the majority of the background and history is and something like AP by the neighbour has already been discussed and discounted.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7387
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 
PreviousNext

Return to Boundaries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests