Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby annie08 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:35 am

We have a stone party wall across the back of our garden. In the back right hand corner the wall is higher because it forms the gable end of one of the farm buildings over the wall. We have an old greenhouse which is attached to the gable end. The new owners of the disused farm buildings want to demolish the barn and reduce the height of the wall in line with the remainder of the boundary wall. The planning application for the site have just become available today and we are unsure of our position re the greenhouse. We are planning to object to the application anyway on other grounds re loss of amenity, inappropriate design given we live in a conservation area and the fact that a previous granted application (that developer backed out) was granted for conversion of the barns rather than demolition. We would lose our greenhouse if this application is granted so can we refuse to allow the height reduction. Are we automatically over ruled if the planners grant permission? Just not quite sure of our position. I suppose we could negotiate with the developer for them to install a new greenhouse for us but I don't think we are going to be very popular with them for objecting to the overall plans for the site. Advice will be much appreciated.
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby Hugh Jaleak » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:34 am

I would expect if it is a party wall, then they cannot do anything with it without your prior consent. Normal practice is the party that wishes to work on a party wall engages a Surveyor at their expense to look after the other sides interests. Your appointed surveyor should not be standing by whilst the other party the wall down to a position where it will render your greenhouse useless!
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby Collaborate » Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:58 am

Hugh Jaleak is correct. They cannot alter the PW without your consent. In the absence of that consent the PW must be maintained as it currently is.

Getting PP just means that the LPA can't prevent the development. It doesn't mean that in law they can do what they want with (what is after all) your property.

I suggest you write to the developer now to explain (with reference to your deeds) the fact that it's a PW, and the fact that you do not give your consent to altering it in any way. Would be useful for you to explain how you're using the wall on your side.
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby jonahinoz » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:15 am

Hi,

I understand that your greenhouse is entitled to the support of the existing wall. No doubt there is a "technical term" for that.

Is there any way that the wall could gain Listed Building protection? :roll: Is the an organisation - eg: Society for Protection of Dry Stone Walls? No, didn't think so.

Do dry stone walls have a scrap value? Could be interesting if half of it is yours. (OT ... I understand that old plasterboard has a scrap value).

Take some photographs NOW, including shots of today's newspaper, so you can prove when they were taken. You don't want to come home one day, find a big pile of "Fait Accompli".

I suspect that this will be resolved by you accepting a cheque.

John W
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby arborlad » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:04 am

annie08 wrote:We have a stone party wall across the back of our garden.



Unless this is a different wall, it might be best to continue this thread: viewtopic.php?t=19245
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:48 am

Hi annie,

does the greenhouse rely on the wall for support? (ie a lean-to)
if so, how long has that greenhouse been there? (ie not 'a' greenhouse - that one in particular as it is now)
you mention it being 'old' - is that shorthand for 'dilapidated'?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby annie08 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:45 am

Arbor lad - I didn't feel it was right to continue my old thread which related to a right of way at the other of the garden. That is now resolved and the new owner of the ROW is not seeking to exercise any rights relating to it.

The greenhouse does rely on the wall for support,it is shabby but sound and has been there since at least 1960.
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby arborlad » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:21 pm

annie08 wrote:Arbor lad - I didn't feel it was right to continue my old thread which related to a right of way at the other of the garden. That is now resolved and the new owner of the ROW is not seeking to exercise any rights relating to it.

The greenhouse does rely on the wall for support,it is shabby but sound and has been there since at least 1960.



Fair enough, but it would be worth pointing out that there is a lot background and history contained in that thread (and possibly others?) that will be relevant to this one.



annie08 wrote:We have a stone party wall across the back of our garden. In the back right hand corner the wall is higher because it forms the gable end of one of the farm buildings over the wall.



Is that an established fact - not disputed by the current neighbour?

You are in a conservation area, the wall may get some protection from that.
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby annie08 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:52 pm

Many thanks, I take your point. Evidence of it being a party wall is contained and shown on a map in the conveyance document. What I'm wondering is, if planning permission is granted do we have any choice? Do we have to accept the loss of our greenhouse?
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby Collaborate » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:26 pm

annie08 wrote:Many thanks, I take your point. Evidence of it being a party wall is contained and shown on a map in the conveyance document. What I'm wondering is, if planning permission is granted do we have any choice? Do we have to accept the loss of our greenhouse?


No. Planning permission only means the local planning authority cannot stop the development. Doesn't give the individual the right to ignore the rights of others.
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:54 pm

Hi annie,

Evidence of it being a party wall is contained and shown on a map in the conveyance document.

does the map specifically identify the gable end section as a party wall? or was the barn built onto it after the conveyance?
(If you could share an anonymised image that would be better).

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby annie08 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:14 pm

Hi Mac - I'm afraid I'm hopeless as to how to attach an image but yes the gable end section is identified as part of the wall. The barn was not built on afterwards. The greenhouse has a 2' high brick base with a wood frame and glass. If the gable end comes down in line with rest of the wall the height available for a new frame and glass will not be much. Suitable for midgets I guess! Thanks.
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby ukmicky » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:00 am

There are three types of party walls.

Type A are walls are basically walls which stand astride the boundary separting and supporting 2 buildings. Ownership is shared 50/50 between the neighbouring lands . If it is one no structural work can occur without your agreement and a party wall notice will need to be sent to find out if you agree or disagree with the works . If work commences without your approval or a party wall award you can gain an emergency injunction halting the works until the procedures in the party wall act have been followed. Not getting your approval or a party wall award would most likely allow you to reclaim your legal costs from the party performing the work

Type B walls are owned by the party whos land it is built upon but is a wall that is enclosed upon by the neighbouring land and is being used as part of a building or structure on the neighboring land. No structural work can occur without your agreement and a party wall notice will need to be sent to find out if you agree or disagree with the works .

Your rights extend only to the part that is built upon and is being used as part of the room and that which is required to structurally support the bit which has been built upon.

If work commences without your approval or a party wall agreement you can gain an emergency injunction halting the works until the procedures in the party wall act were followed. Once again not getting your approval or a party wall award would most likely allow you to reclaim your legal costs from the party performing the work.

Party Fence Walls are basically freestanding walls which stand astride the boundary and the ownership is shared 50/50 between the neighbouring lands. If it is one no structural work can occur without your agreement and a party wall notice will need to be sent to find out if you agree or disagree with the works . If work commences without your approval or a party wall award you can gain an emergency injunction halting the works until the procedures in the party wall act have been followed. Not getting your approval or a party wall award would most likely allow you to reclaim your legal costs from the party performing the work


If your wall is not a type A it will almost certainly be a type B
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby annie08 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:38 pm

Many thanks. Ours is a type A. Have been reading up a bit and will dissent from the Party Wall notice is served so we get the protection it provides should we need it.
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Re: Developers application to reduce height of party wall

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:23 pm

Hi annie,

if it is a Type A party wall the original owner must have declared that a portion of the thickness of the gable end of the barn they were retaining was to be included in the land being sold off.

this would mean he and his successors would require consent from the owners of your property to lawfully carry out any works on that part of their barn - not a very good decision IMHO.

anyhow, that's what they did so...

could you not rebuild that side in much the same way as the others (ie low wall with frame on top...)?

Kind regards, Mac
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