New discussion about old issue.

New discussion about old issue.

Postby loveka » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:23 pm

I though I would start a new thread, as the old one had several different queries in it and so is a bit confusing. Thanks so much for your advice so far, it really has been invaluable and I am really grateful.

My new next door neighbour says that the fence that is the boundary feature is in the wrong place. He thinks it is 8 inches closer to his house than it should be.

The fence has been there since the late 1990's. When we bought the house in 1999 this is what we bought, and no discrepancy was highlighted in the survey or conveyancing process. We have a statement from the people we bought the house from confirming this was also the boundary feature when they bought the house.

We have had many discussions around this. His only evidence that the fence is in the wrong place is the land registry plan.

We received a solicitors letter yesterday saying he is giving us 7 days from the date of the letter- which was Friday- as notice that he will take the fence down, remove our property from the land and begin digging foundations for his extension.

He encloses 2 surveyors reports as 'proof'. 1 says land registry plans cannot be relied upon and advises him to seek legal advice. It also draws a plan of what the land registry plan should, if it used accurate measurements, look like, The other report is factually inaccurate as it says we have only lived in the house for 8 years, and bases all its advice on that fact, i.e. says we cannot claim adverse possession of the land as we haven't lived there long enough.

We believe the land is ours because what is on the ground is what marks the boundary.

He says he can move the fence because it is his fence. The deeds do not show who is responsible for the fences. The previous owner of his house certainly did nothing to maintain the fence while he was there. He wouldn't have put it up, as he did nothing to maintain his property at all (not a criticism, a fact.He is a lovely old guy who lived a line in the house for over 40 years)

Surely though, if the new neighbour is insisting that he owns the fence then that would assume his predecessor put it up? Which would also assume the previous owner put it up where he believed the boundary to be? Is that a valid argument?

I am writing to the solicitor and want to know if I can put that in?

From all I have read it would seem he does not have a case, as his only proof of ownership of the piece of land is the land registry plans. Does he have any case at all?
This has all been so stressful.
.
loveka
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby Eliza » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:17 pm

Previous thread for information:

viewtopic.php?t=20150
Apologies for not giving exact personal details in my posts - you never know who is reading....
Eliza
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:28 am

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby COGGY » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:44 pm

Hi

Has he applied for Planning Permission for his extension? Just because he has asked a solicitor to write a letter for him is not any reason for you to believe what he says. A solicitor will normally write any letter they are asked to do, it is not necessary for them to query the validity of such letter. Has he suddenly decided the fence is in the wrong place in order to be able to build his extension?

I would write to the solicitor stating that the fence is in the correct place, where it has been for many years.

Coggy
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby loveka » Sun Mar 06, 2016 2:55 pm

Thanks. The extension has gone through permitted development. He is allowed to build it, it's just where he builds that is an issue.
loveka
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby COGGY » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:02 pm

Hi

Have you inspected the plans? If the neighbour believed the fence was in the wrong place the time for him to query this was before his purchase of the property. It is very convenient that he suddenly decides to claim your land when he wishes to build. Neighbours will say many things and sound believable when doing so. That does make the statements to be true. You need to strongly refute his attempt at claiming your land.

Coggy
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby cleo5 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 3:49 pm

Hi,
Try not to worry too much.
If you can afford it get your own boundary surveyor to check everything. Cost abot £500-700.
He will check your deeds against the land and measure accordingly.
ps
Sorry ! Posted before reading your old thread so have deleted extraneous comments.
cleo5
 
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 12:33 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby pilman » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:56 pm

In English law it is implied that a person will erect a fence on the limit of their own property to define the full extent of the land they own

If next door's owner had erected that fence, or your predecessor in title had erected that fence the legal implication came into play when you purchased the property in 1999.

Since that was over 10 years ago there is no way the neighbour has a legal right to now dispute the position of the fence, because it is also implied that he accepted that was the defined boundary when he bought the property.

Land Registry confirm that a red line drawn on a title plan shows the general boundary position of the land in that title. On an Ordnance Survey title plan drawn at a scale of 1:1250 the red line will have a width of up to 12 inches or more. For someone to claim that the title plan allows a legal boundary to be defined to an accuracy of 8 inches is just nonsensical.

You need to respond to the solicitor setting out those facts and confirming that you will seek an injunction if the neighbour goes ahead with his threatened action to erect an extension that extends beyond the current line of the fence.
pilman
 
Posts: 2840
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:08 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby loveka » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:02 pm

Thanks so much! That is so helpful.

I am considering one of those diy injunctions. I am confused though, as it gives him a 14 day warning/notice period. He has given us 7 days- 4 working days. Does one cancel the other out?

Also, could I get an injunction in place by Friday?

I have written to the solicitor today, I just said the 7 day notice period was unreasonable.

My instinct was to give our legal position. I now wish I had done that. Could I write the solicitor another letter?
loveka
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby COGGY » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:06 pm

Hi

Could I write the solicitor another letter?


Yes but do take time to consider your response carefully. Take Pilman's advice he really does know what he is talking about. Coggy
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby loveka » Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:08 pm

I am also considering writing to the neighbour today. Just to explain our position yet again, and attaching the statement we have from the people we bought the house from (which he has not seen).

I also wondered if I should attach some of the stuff I have read, e.g. from Jon Maynards site, to help him to understand our position.

My other question is around the ownership of the fence. He insists he owns it- though I think he must know the previous owner didn't put it up!. I From what I have been told it was put up by the person who bought our house in 1995 and sold in 1996.

However, if he thinks the fence was put up by the previous owner of his house then surely this implies the fence is actually in the right place?

But then , if we own the fence estoppel would apply, as the previous owner did not object to the position of the fence over a period of 20 years.

So either way this proves the land contained by the fence is ours? Am I right?
loveka
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby loveka » Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:29 pm

Yes we have!
loveka
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby loveka » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:01 pm

I wonder if anyone can help with another question on my long running saga.

We are getting nowhere with our neighbour. We have spoken to the person who sold him the house, who said he never thought the fence was in the wrong place. However, he doesn't want to get involved so won't sign a statement.

The current neighbour has a surveyors report which redrawn the plan with dimensions_ he has done this using very old OS plans, i.e. using these as a basis for the dimensions.
The neighbour says this is his proof. Our surveyor report said the usual stuff about not relying on land registry plans for such small amounts due to scale. Our neighbour says our surveyor report is rubbish, his surveyor is correct.

We are now thinking of claiming adverse possession through the land registry, under the part which says we were under the mistaken belief the land was ours. Land registry website seems to suggest our case fits into this. Our neighbour says we can't claim adverse possession.

The previous owner of the neighbours house had an easement through our garden, which we extinguished a couple of years ago. Neighbour says this means we did not have exclusive use of the land and so can't claim adverse possession. However, he did not use the land, he was allowed to pass through it - he didnt use the easement more than 3 times.

Would any body know if the easement would effect the adverse possession claim?
loveka
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby despair » Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:49 pm

If the previous owner says the fence is correct but wont sign a sworn affidavit I would smell "rats "

and there must be a legal reason to sue for misrepresentation especially if your facing loosing land

if an easement has been extinguished surely theres a clearly defined map for that

This scenario has been allowed to drag on too long

take action now and stop messing around
despair
 
Posts: 16043
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:07 am

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby loveka » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:09 pm

I guess it's difficult to know what action to take.

We have offered to split the 8 inches with him. He will not accept this as the boundary line. So we would still have a disputed boundary if we chose to sell.

I didon't want to claim adverse possession as it starts the legal ball rolling and the stress has been bad enough already. I need to know if the extinguished easement will prevent us claiming adverse possession before I claim it.
loveka
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: New discussion about old issue.

Postby despair » Sat Mar 26, 2016 8:49 pm

Do you not have legal expenses cover somewhere ....have you checked ?


this neighbour is playing you for monkeys the fence is in situ its the boundary no matter what nonsense he tries to claim

you need to threaten the previous neighbour that you will haul them into court if they refuse to sign that statement and sue them for loss of value of your house
despair
 
Posts: 16043
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:07 am

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 
Next

Return to Boundaries

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests