Who owns the fence?

Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby arborlad » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:16 am

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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby Conveyancer » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:05 pm

As has been said, there are two issues.

The first is where the boundary is. I fear this is a lost cause for cashlesssociety. If the fence has been where it now is for as long as he suggests, the boundary has now shifted and follows the fence. Looking at title plans is not going to help because the boundary has moved.

The second is who owns the fence. If the fences on the other boundaries of cashlesssociety's garden are of the same age and type and different from the fences on the other boundaries of the neighbour's garden, that points to the fence being cashlesssociety's.
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby cashlesssociety » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:58 am

Conveyancer wrote:As has been said, there are two issues.

The first is where the boundary is. I fear this is a lost cause for cashlesssociety. If the fence has been where it now is for as long as he suggests, the boundary has now shifted and follows the fence. Looking at title plans is not going to help because the boundary has moved.

The second is who owns the fence. If the fences on the other boundaries of cashlesssociety's garden are of the same age and type and different from the fences on the other boundaries of the neighbour's garden, that points to the fence being cashlesssociety's.


If it is a lost cause is it unreasonable to ask the " squatters " to seek Adverse Possession through the courts so the deeds on my house can reflect exactly what is in the garden as they will not even negotiate or discuss anything to do with the boundary line or ownership of the fence and a ready to erect 6 foot panelled fencing which will greatly infringe on the light in my kitchen, due to it being very much in what I see as the wrong place.
I am thinking that makes it easier to sell.

Am I right in thinking that if it is my fence then they have no right to use my fence post or attach their pannelled fence to my picket fence?

Does the fact that my neighbours house was only first registered in 2013 without adverse possession being claimed and that Im not sure what was before the picket fence but I believe the owner of my house from many years ago allowed my former neighbour to use part of his garden and it is clearly within the boundary which runs from the edge of all the houses and there can be no reasonable or mistaken belief that this land was theirs.

Thanks again for all replies and I have been hoping for the Conveyancers opinion

I did have a quick chat with someone from the RICS and they did say that in no way is a fence always necessarily the boundary marker especially when in the deeds and on the map which accompanies them it seems that the boundary feature may be the path. Also when my neighbour increased his garden by taking some of this one the fence was built to contain a dog. Not sure what was there before.
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby mr sheen » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:51 am

You can ASK...they can do as they wish. Can't force anyone else to do anything.
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby arborlad » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:51 am

cashlesssociety wrote:The garden was changed many years ago with or without the consent of the previous owner of my house.
In the deeds their is a conveynance which states rights of way at the back of the houses. Also the right to walk up paths in the garden and these were the boundary.
The fence is well to the side of the path which is clearly the boundary line as stated in the deeds.




It would depend on how well it was documented but if the neighbour was granted a right to use a path of a particular colour marked on a plan, that would be something in your favour - you can't have a right of way over land that you own. The edge of a driveway is frequently a boundary feature.
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby despair » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:09 am

Yes it sounds like the fence has been put up on your side of the ROW path
in which case no matter how much they don't like it your neighbours cannot claim ownership

Its the ROW that needs addressing

Do you not have Legal Expenses Cover on your mortgage or insurances , credit cards union membership

CHECK and double check
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby COGGY » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:23 pm

Hi
Do you have a mortgage on your property? If so the Building Society/Bank may well have an interest in this. It may be worth mentioning it to them.
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby cashlesssociety » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:52 pm

Yes I do have a mortgage and also just checked with my house insurance that I do have legal cover up to £100,000
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby despair » Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:08 pm

GOOD

contact the legal helpline and get them onto it but ..........DO NOT say its a boundary dispute

say its the neighbour has fenced off a dual ROW and is falsely trying to claim it

download a copy of your deeds and those of the neighbour

the ROW should be clearly on one or the other or both

A ROW cannot be extinguished

Ask other neighbours who have been there longer what the situation was years ago

go to your library or local history society and search out arial photos
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby arborlad » Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:46 pm

despair wrote:GOOD

contact the legal helpline and get them onto it but ..........DO NOT say its a boundary dispute

say its the neighbour has fenced off a dual ROW and is falsely trying to claim it

download a copy of your deeds and those of the neighbour

the ROW should be clearly on one or the other or both

A ROW cannot be extinguished

Ask other neighbours who have been there longer what the situation was years ago

go to your library or local history society and search out arial photos




Please don't shout!

For the OP..........it would be very unwise for you to make any sort of false insurance claim, just from what you have posted on here, the above would be untrue.
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby despair » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:00 pm

I was not suggesting a false insurance claim

just if you even say boundary dispute they wont look at it

The OP needs to be very clear as to exactly what is in both deeds and whether there is an actual ROW

hence why uploading a copy of the plans and any relevant wording in the deeds ( leave out names and addresses ) would help greatly
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby cashlesssociety » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:06 pm

When we moved in we were told that along the path to the right we had a right of way to walk ( with a wheel barrow etc) up that one which is supported in the deeds.
The neighbour to our left, the told us very clearly that we were not longer entitled to walk up his path. The deeds do not mention us ever having a ROW on this one but what I am saying is that it seems to be a boundary feature on the plans of all the original 6 houses.
There were no fences and paths were the boundaries and everyone with a garden next to the boundary had the right of way to walk up the paths.
Im not sure how or when this changed but all the other houses seemd to have changed with all having larged panelled fencing.
Im maybe not being clear so will try later to upload images and the wording.
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby Eliza » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:50 pm

I would say that the combination of the neighbour has a ROW (and therefore how could they own) the path sounds hopeful. In combination with the fact that the property wasnt Registered until 2013 and yet your land wasnt included as being "theirs" just 3 years back has me feeling reasonably hopeful on your behalf that they won't get away with this. I would have thought that, if they are planning on doing an adverse possession claim on your land, that they could only start "counting the years" towards it as from 2013 and that would mean they havent got nearly enough "countable years" in yet for this.

I think, too, that many people would understand/sympathise with letting a very elderly neighbour carry on using part of one's garden just to be "kind" - but with every intention of taking back that bit of garden when the elderly neighbour dies/goes into a home as a valid (if daft - as I discovered myself....) reason for not pushing it about getting back access to one's own land.

To me - I would be ringing your legal advice service and pointing out these 3 facts and that the fence would appear to be yours (ie being in the same style as your other fences) and take it from there.

To me - it feels like they are trying to intimidate you into thinking they CAN do something they actually CANNOT do and hoping you will believe them or be scared to act.
Apologies for not giving exact personal details in my posts - you never know who is reading....
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby arborlad » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:37 am

Eliza wrote:I would say that the combination of the neighbour has a ROW (and therefore how could they own) the path sounds hopeful.




There is no certainty to that, it was put forward as a suggestion of what might be the case, if there is evidence to support it.
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Re: Who owns the fence?

Postby Eliza » Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:32 pm

Then this is what we need to know then I guess - ie whether the deeds specify it is a ROW. If they do - then I would have thought it would be "game, set, match" to OP.

What is the exact wording of the Deeds about a possible ROW?

Quick little side thought - if the neighbours house only got sold in recent years - then I wonder if the "for sale" details of the time are still up there somewhere on the Internet. I've certainly seen houses for sale and thought "But they only sold last a couple of years back" and been able to find those old details up there. I guess there is just a chance that maybe there is something in there that will help clarify re whether it is or isnt an official ROW.
Apologies for not giving exact personal details in my posts - you never know who is reading....
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