Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby flippin fuming » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:15 am

sorry this is a bit of astory but...i sold about 1/2 acre of garden land to a developer, the access uses our existing drive...so private drive is now shared, the road was to be widened. That's all fine, we agreed to it. The new propeties are now having 2nd fix so just about finished. Over the last 6 months i have questioned the developer on where the boundary positions are as they didn't seem to measure up to the plan. He said the plans were a bit out of scale. I have repeatedly asked him to get a survey done to prove it. He ignored this and ploughed ahead. I though I could be wrong, it was just me with a tape measure trying to follow a pdf file drawing. Recently he has started putting in drainage/survices...marks to go down the access road on the plan...I told them to stop because it looked to me as it it was going off the road and into my retained garden land. I thought enough is enough and got my own survey done...well..I was gobsmacked. He is 3-4 metres out in most places, it even seems he has built one of the properties partly on my land by about 1.5 metres! He has also put my new boundary fencing i. The wrong place, its way off. Also a couple of fairly substantial 2m high walls are over onto my land, he has encroached just about everywhere! He went nuts with me when he saw my surveyor's marks. I had given him a couple of dasnotice it was happening. Anyway, he now has his own surveyor in(about time!) and the makrs he is putting in match my survey exactly! So, advice needed...we own a small corner of the land a 3bed bungalow is built on, and its side path...another wall going over our land by about a metre, over about 6 metres. I think one of the major services could be under my land..not under the road! So it big brown stuff hitting big fan. I will probably sell him the small chunks of land (and get him to move my boundary fence to te right place) but how much do you think I should ask for. The bungalow is on at £365k. The developer has shouted and balled at me and threatened me with all sorts of action, saying he thinks I am trying to take land from him!!! This is priceless as 2 separate surveyors with cad files/laser measuring tools etc.. Have marked it and agreed. He will also now have to apply for retrospective PP? What a mess! So, what price should I ask him... The bungalow land is probably 60m x 1-2m, the wall on a different part of the site eats up about 6x 1m. Sory this is a long post but boy is it complicated! What makes it worse, we asked him to build us a double garage, he told us we could only have it 5m wide as we didn't own the extra meter of land, but we did!...so he's also cost us a full double garage! So I want compensation for the fact we now have an odd sized garage Grrrrrr!
Last edited by flippin fuming on Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby cabbagewhite » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:37 am

You cannot expect us to know how much these little areas of land are worth. For a start, land is has different values in different areas of the country. He needs the land so may pay more than the usual price but then again it is in your interests to sell it too him, so maybe you would accept less. You will have to sit down with the developer and come to an agreement.

I do think you have been very naïve to be honest. I would have measured and marked all the boundaries myself before a single brick was laid and got the fences up immediately. You effectively watched him build these houses, made no actual formal objection to their location and then when they were up, you told him they were in the wrong place.

I would say you are also responsible for this mess. If you can accept some of the responsibility, it might help you to move forward and sort this problem out. If you take an overly aggressive approach and fail to realise that any of this is on account of your passive behaviour, you may get more money - or you might end up in court.
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby despair » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:43 am

Never never never trust anyone least of all a developer
if you were stupid enough not to insist the correct area was fenced off right from the start you will need very deep pockets to fight this
to have sat back and only just noticed the discrepancies really beggars belief
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby flippin fuming » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:54 am

Hi, sorry I think you misundertood my post...maybe I didn't make it clear. I told him I thought it was wrong when he was staking it all out...nothing had been built yet! Beofr this. Paid thousands for all the various surveys to be done...I gave him copies of all these surveys as part of the sale. Afte I told him I thought it was wrong I said he should get a survey done to check...I had already paid thousands so didn't see why
I should have to get anothe one...its not my fault if he doesn't follow the plans he was given or take any notice of me tellng him to check it. I also told him I thought other things wre wrong, I have been aski him to get it surveyed throughout te whole process. I had no idea the actual building he put u was on my land, I just thougt the garden boundaries weren't lining up. I told him this all along...his attitude was that I was moaning and trying to claim more land back. Also I bent over backwards to help him...I let him put his cabin/office in my front garden all this time so it wouldn't be in the way on the development, let him park all his vans on my land. Maybe with this extra info you'll see I wasn't just letting him get on with it and sitting back...I made it clear to him many many times from the very start. I did measure it with a full survey before he began.
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby flippin fuming » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:10 pm

Despair...why do you get the impression I sat back and only just noticed when I said from the start and continued to do so regularly that it was wrong..the guy just wouldn't listen to me. I even told his wife who also told him to get a survey..he told her she didn't know what she was talking about and that plans on the ground can be way off, he said everything was out of scale. I must have said to him about these discrepancies about 20 times! I don't see why you think it will cost me a penny as its the developer who is having to put it right. He is the one in a mess, I sold the land to him with PP so I had my payment then...before the buid began. Its all his problem now. I checked wit my solicitor and he can't sell the properties unless he buys the strips of land from me. He will have to do all the legal stuff. I can access my own property, have parking area etc, I have separate services. This will probably cost him money...but its all on him not me. He's the fool who wouldn't listen to me.
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby cabbagewhite » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:23 pm

Ok, I understand that you were very trusting in what you did and perhaps thought he would treat you with the same respect you gave him but he did not and you have now been left in this predicament.

I said/ I thought/ I asked - are all phrases that are not going to stand up in a court; how are you going to prove this? This could have been avoided by you measuring out your land, inserting at the very least boundary markers - preferably a wall or fence. You should have then photographed them and you could have even shown him them, discussed them with him and then emailed him minutes of your meeting with the photographs.

He is not the same as you. He is a developer who has made money from doing this. He may have known he was encroaching but right now he has his buildings up and you have not done anything proactive to prevent them being built. He will say your conversations never took place and you (I'm guessing) have no written evidence to prove otherwise. If this ends up in court - even if you win, you lose (health, emotion and moneywise)

I feel for you, he has taken you for a ride. We all live and learn and in this case you need to negotiate to get some compensation for what he has done. You need to be "level headed, firm and reasonable " because being "flipping fuming" is not going to help.

Being kind to a developer has probably been your weakness. He as taken advantage. In terms of the extra land he has taken, what about working out the cost per square foot/metre he bought and then asking him for a pro rata amount for the amount he encroached - maybe a bit extra if there has been a loss of amenity for you (eg area right outside your window).
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:12 pm

Hi flipping fuming,

what about working out the cost per square foot/metre he bought and then asking him for a pro rata amount for the amount he encroached - maybe a bit extra if there has been a loss of amenity for you (eg area right outside your window).

this seems like a very sensible suggest to me.

however, I would calculate this figure and keep it in mind during early negotiations, rather than come straight out with it -
he may offer more to make the problem go away.

you need to act fast, though, if his builds are up for sale...

Kind regards, Mac
ps make him aware you don't want a boundary dispute either - he won't be able to sell and you'll be left with a building site next door
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby flippin fuming » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:08 pm

Thanks macadam, i thought that might be the way forward. I'm not trying to stop him finish the job, just trying to work out a solution. I do feel he has lied to me by saying the plans were out of scale and telling me I didn't have enough land for a double garage when I did. He's also bullied my neighbours over their boundary too. He was very angry, shouting at me when the surveyor was here. He even went up to the poor guy doing the survey to tell him he wouldn't be able to do it accurately and that he had the wrong plan. The developer got his own survey done and it matches exactly, he's since gone very quiet!
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby flippin fuming » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:19 pm

Thanks cabbagewhite, I have plenty of witnesses who are builders. He's fallen out with some of them, they say they agree with me and would write a statement if needed as they all knew what was going on from the start and hread me say on a number of occasions that the positions were wrong. I have a large garden so the bits he needs don't really matter too much...there isn't anything there other than grass and the new fence. I'm annoyed about the garage, but I do have several other out buildings so its not the end of the world. He treated me with disrespect, assuming I couldn't read a map or use a tape measure...and I have a maths degree! What a wally.
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby flippin fuming » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:24 pm

Macadam...therr's no rush on my part..my solicitor has confirmed the builder can't sell the properties as we still haven't finallly released the land, that was a condition of the sale...he can't sell without me signing the land transfer. I did this to protect me from this sort of situation. The builder also bought land from my neighbour as part of the same deal so we worked together on this, neither of us release the land until the completion of the build. So the builder is the one with the problem and maybe I'm wasn't so stupid after all?
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby jonahinoz » Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:43 pm

Hi Fuming,

I agree with Mac, don't get viscious, and don't get done.

The Developer has several problems. He has built houses where maybe the plans say they shouldn't be. He has whatever dispute you wish to give him. Unless you formally add more land to the deal, he cannot sell the houses that are built on your land ... and from what you say, it is all still your land. Does that make the houses built on your land YOUR houses?

Question ... by grabbing more land than he should have, has he been able to build more houses than would have fitted on the agreed plot? Example, my mate went through a hard-ball divorce. He owned a building plot, of which he offered his wife half. She said "No deal! there will only be room for two houses on each half, but there was room for five houses on the original plot." She wanted the value of two and a half building plot, in cash.

I don't know how the Planners will view a house built outside the "permitted" area. I don't know if the developer has friends in High Places

The land is now, in theory, worth more per m2, than when you agreed a sale. Inflation? Above inflation rise in house prices? The bigger the plot, the more it is worth per m2?

John W
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby flippin fuming » Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:42 pm

Hi Jonahinoz, I agree...I'm not trying to break the guy. He hasn't built any more properties than was allowed, its just one of them is partly over my boundary and another one has a garden wall over my boundary, effectively makin me own a bit of their garden. Nobody actually lives there yet but there are buyers going theough the purchase process. I don't want to hold that up either as it would be painful for them and they haven't done anything wrong. If I was a swine I could cause all manner of headaches for the builder, that's why I think the best plan is to sell him the land and get him to move fencing to the right place where its possible. I'm not sure how reasonable the guy is going to be, howpfully it can remain civil. He had a survey dine today and it matched up exactly to the one I had organised last week. I think the penny has now dropped that I did know what I was talking about and had measured it properly. He should have followed the plans, he had a surveyor mark out the actual buildings so god knows how one isn't in the right place. He put all the walls/fencing in without a surveyor that's why there isn't one part of the boundary that is actually on the line of the plans. I will try to work with him and get it resolved, I am cheesed off but that won't help move ings forward. I just now have to work out a reasonable amount for the land parcels.
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby Collaborate » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:57 pm

Just remember that you have him over a barrel somewhat. He could be forced to reinstate the boundary where it ought to be, and demolish the part of the building that is on your land, so he should be going out of his way to be nice to you.
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby flippin fuming » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:59 am

Collaborate, there are people who would take him to te cleaners over this or make him knock things down, that's not me. Although he hasn't exactly done himself any favours by shouting at me when the survey was done.
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Re: Developer has built new property and walls on our land

Postby arborlad » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:36 am

flippin fuming wrote: The new propeties are now having 2nd fix so just about finished. Over the last 6 months i have questioned the developer on where the boundary positions are........




This development shouldn't have reached 1st spit without effective boundary features being in place.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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