Boundary agreement v TP1

Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby megabunny » Wed May 17, 2017 12:42 pm

We are in the latter stages of selling our house and everything has stalled because of the purchaser's solicitor's interpretation of our boundary agreement. The agreement was concerning the back wall of our stables that is shown on the title as being partly over onto our neighbours land. Our neighbours agreed with us that this was incorrect and the signed a new agreement and site plan and this has been registered with the Land Registry.

However the purchaser's solicitor will not convey the title because they are saying that a TP1 transfer of the land should happen instead, My question is this, if this is just her interpretation on what lawful grounds would she have not to accept the boundary agreement?
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed May 17, 2017 1:28 pm

Hi megabunny,

to clarify, the title plans for both properties showed that your property includes some land which you thought belonged to the neighbour - have I understood?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby megabunny » Wed May 17, 2017 2:19 pm

Okay, this difficult for me to explain so bear with me.

When we bought the house off the county council it was conveyed without the stables ( now disputed boundary ) showing on the conveyance plan even though it existed. We later had some more land transferred to us from the council ( which had nothing to do with stables) in another title and behold the stables are shown on the this plan with the red boundary going through the middle of the stables. We questioned this at the time but the council solicitor said he couldn't do anything about it because it is how the LR show the boundary.

Now we are selling our house and to sort out the problem of the boundary going through the middle of the stables we got our neighbours to sign an agreement stating that the boundary goes around the back wall of the stables and not through it ( in other words they agreed that the LR title plan is wrong and signed a new plan).

So now the purchaser's solicitor is refusing to convey the title because they say a TP1 should have been done instead. But my question is on what point of law do they have to have the right to do this? According to the land registry the boundary agreement is sufficient evidence to convey but they can't give legal advice to the solicitor so I'm stuck!

Help please
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed May 17, 2017 2:38 pm

Hi metabunny,

ah, the complete opposite - some of the land you thought was part of your property is outside the red line on your title plan.

two points I think need to be explained:

1. where the outcome of a boundary agreement shows that a transfer of land is required there is a legal obligation to do so rather than just lodge the boundary agreement with HMLR.
HMLR will lodge the boundary agreement either way - it's for the parties concerned to meet the obligation.

2. whether successors in title are bound by a boundary agreement has not yet been established in law so, unless your buyer is prepared to take it through court (in the event the neighbour's successor reneges) its as good as void.

I imagine it's for one of these reasons your buyer's sols is advising to get the sliver transferred.

do you foresee a problem with getting this done? or are you just curious about the logic of their advice?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... boundaries

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby megabunny » Wed May 17, 2017 3:46 pm

Hello Mac

Thanks for your reply.

I can see your logic. However it gets a little more convoluted because looking at my neigbours title plan, their outbuilding which aligns with the stable boundary has skewed thus causing the red line to run through the middle of the stables instead of its true path around it. This is corroborated by satellite imagery which shows the outbuilding to be in the correct position not as shown on the title plan.

So by making a TP1 I would be transferring my own land to myself!

What now?
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby megabunny » Wed May 17, 2017 4:55 pm

Hi Mac
Further to my last post and your point 1

How do you know if the outcome of a boundary agreement requires a transfer?
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby Roblewis » Wed May 17, 2017 5:55 pm

Fixed Boundary determinations can be made by the formal agreement of the 2 parties and registered with the LR. It is not a transfer of land but an absolute fixing of the boundary which is I understand what has happened.
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby megabunny » Wed May 17, 2017 6:25 pm

Thanks for your response

We could as you say apply for a fixed boundary but this takes a long time and so would a TP1 transfer. As we are selling our house and purchasing another we don't have the luxury of time. Anyway this all stems from a mapping error.

The LR say the boundary agreement is sufficient in their opinion for a solicitor to make a conveyance ( although they can't get involved or give legal advice) but it is the conveyancing solicitor's own personal interpretation that a transfer should take place rather than a boundary agreement. There is nothing in LR practice guides to support this so on what on what lawful grounds other than personal interpretation does the purchaser's solicitor have to refuse to convey? Why not follow practice guidelines and convey on the boundary agreement?
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby arborlad » Wed May 17, 2017 6:35 pm

megabunny wrote:When we bought the house off the county council it was conveyed without the stables ( now disputed boundary ) showing on the conveyance plan even though it existed. We later had some more land transferred to us from the council ( which had nothing to do with stables) in another title and behold the stables are shown on the this plan with the red boundary going through the middle of the stables. We questioned this at the time but the council solicitor said he couldn't do anything about it because it is how the LR show the boundary.




Can you give a timeline for this please?
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby megabunny » Wed May 17, 2017 6:42 pm

We bought the house off the council in sept 2013 and the registered the title a few months later. Then a year later the council transferred the rest of the land that should have been included in the original title so we have two titles for our one property.
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby ukmicky » Wed May 17, 2017 11:57 pm

In my opinion you do not need a transfer of land, what you need to apply to get the boundary redrawn or rectification of the register due it containing a mistake. They will only normally do it if the error is such that it is outside the scope of the general boundaries rule which it maybe if the red line is going through a building.


Read these

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... title-plan
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... x-examples
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby Collaborate » Thu May 18, 2017 6:32 am

ukmicky wrote:In my opinion you do not need a transfer of land, what you need to apply to get the boundary redrawn or rectification of the register due it containing a mistake. They will only normally do it if the error is such that it is outside the scope of the general boundaries rule which it maybe if the red line is going through a building.


Read these

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... title-plan
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... x-examples


I agree that it appears that what you need is rectification.
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby megabunny » Thu May 18, 2017 9:34 am

Thanks for the replies so far.

As for a rectification, this takes time, too much time. We are in the latter stages of conveyancing .
Our successors in title can apply for rectification or even a TP1 if they want to.

My original question remains unanswered so far, " on what lawful grounds / case law /practice law does the purchaser's solicitor have to not complete the conveyance on the basis of boundary agreement AP1 registration?"

Thanks to all so far
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby mr sheen » Thu May 18, 2017 9:52 am

Have contracts been exchanged?
The purchasers can lawfully withdraw without penalty prior to exchange of contracts for any reason at all. The solicitor can use any reason.

I personally would not proceed with any property purchase where the property is involved in any boundary dispute and would expect my solicitor to advise along those lines.
Last edited by mr sheen on Thu May 18, 2017 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boundary agreement v TP1

Postby Roblewis » Thu May 18, 2017 9:54 am

Their solicitor is actually still acting in their clients best interest and on that they will rest. The matter was best resolved some years ago not in the midst of a sale. The agreed fixing of the boundary would have been straightforward but I realise that many do not do this even after a court decision on a fixed boundary. The lesson really is that matters affecting property boundaries and the like should be dealt with quickly and recorded formally as soon as possible.
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