Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby C0912 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:52 pm

Hi all,

This has to do with a brick wall running between the gardens of my neighbour and I.
On the deeds the boundary is marked with a 'T' on my side and says I am responsible for maintaining, renewing and repair of the boundary structure. It doesn't say I own it. My neighbour says when they bought the property the vendor and the agent 'told' them the wall is theirs which is why their old garage was partially built directly in front of it. We are now both having extensions done at the same time and the land between our houses has been cleared in readiness for the build. I used to have an outbuilding built to the edge of that brick wall, not pass it which has stood there for the last 15 years, which was next to their old garage. According to my other neighbours that brick wall has been there for over 25 years and they suspect it was placed there when the houses were built. I have owned this property for 20 years and that wall has always been there so I have always assumed that area up to the wall was part of my land. The neighbours moved in about 4 years ago and have never questioned the position of this boundary feature until now.

I have planning permission to build to what I assume is this physical boundary (I know its not the same as a legal boundary), not astride it. The neighbours are saying I can't and that I have to go back because the wall is not exactly between the two gardens. We are on a slope and my house sits slightly higher than theirs. They are measuring with a tape measure between the two houses and saying I have to abide by the middle line. Basically running from the front of the houses to the back the boundary line angles and goes 3 inches over to their side so effectively they feel they have lost that bit going from front to back. At the front it starts at 300cm from the side of my house, by the time it gets to the brick wall its 310cm from the side of my house. They have been harassing me for weeks first saying they wanted to build a joint wall between our extensions, then no joint wall, then a joint one again. Now I have said I don't want a joint wall with them because I want as little as possible to do with them they are now insisting I build away from the 'middle line' and about 4 inches away from side of the brick wall at the back (the presumed boundary).


Should I ask for evidence of this 'ownership' of this boundary feature or is it mine?? Do boundaries run in a straight line between houses? Can this be affected by the gradient? Should I stop the build and get a land surveyor in?

Seems like a lot of hassle for a strip of land less than 4 inches wide so I feel like just giving in but they have been so persistent knocking on my door all times of the day and weekends to discuss the builds that they're just annoying me now. The husbands been shouting/yelling about the boundary in front of all and sundry, then the wife comes the next day being all smiley saying she wants to resolve this amicably. They poured the footings of their foundations 1 foot over into my land which I said nothing about, they blamed the plywood supports buckling. Part of my foundations , probably one inch went astride the boundary line as my foundations have to sit higher anyway and they want it cut back. Its just been a nightmare.

Sorry for the long post. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you.
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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby SwitchRich » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:29 am

You are in luck as there are some very knowledgeable people on this site who are willing to help a worthy cause.
However it's always best to submit as much as you are willing share as possible. If you have deeds and a plan showing these T marks please post.
Also if you have some pictures that tell the story of what you are describing all the better too. The more information they have the better the advice you can hope for.
You will find that the site needs you to get to a post count of 5 before you can do this. So if you are really stuck for a way to do this then just post test into this thread four more times.

Boundary disputes devalue properties and cause no end of stress. If you have communication channels open try to keep it that way. And I would check your house insurance to see if it covers legal disputes now.
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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby Morgan Sweet » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:50 pm

I am NOT one of the experts on the forum and have my own boundary dispute which is proving very tedious and protracted to resolve.

Unless or until you receive more educated advice from other forum members, you may consider the following.

What I would suggest is writing to the neighbour suggesting that you both agree to a joint declaration of the boundary that would be decided preferably by an independent Chartered Land Surveyor, or any Chartered Surveying company that are members of Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors.

You can contact a surveyor for 30 minutes free advice if you call the RICS.

As I have discovered, Planning Departments do not check the Land Registry plans before granting planning permission and the physical boundary is not always where the legal boundary is.
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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby ukmicky » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:51 pm

The position of the wall is now the boundary under the law if its been there for 25 years, even if it was built in an incorrect position. The only question that needs answering is who owns it. Can you prove its the original wall. if it was there from when the houses were first built the wall is yours according to your deeds.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby despair » Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:19 am

Get hold of old aerial photos from libraries,local history groups

But i think your neighbour needs to get a grip and face reality
If your house is on higher ground that wall will be there to support your ground thus its yours
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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby arborlad » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:21 pm

despair wrote:If your house is on higher ground that wall will be there to support your ground thus its yours




What if the adjoining land has been lowered?
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby jdfi » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:50 am

Have either served a PWA notice?

If you're building at the same time it may be sensible to share the middle line?
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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby arborlad » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:57 am

You'll get a much better response if everything is contained in one thread:



C0912 wrote:hi all,

My neighbour is building an extension about 10cm away from my external wall on one side. It runs parallel to my house for about 10 metres. So there should have been a gap running between the two houses about this wide after their extension is built. They approached me before and said they wanted to brick up both sides of this gap, they couldn't say what they were going to put onto the top of it to cover the top of this gap so I was dubious. Short version I said no because a) I had previous issues with them disputing the physical boundary wall running between our two gardens which on the deeds are marked with a 'T' on my side and b) on their plans they submitted to the Council they showed intent to build behind the boundary line and also c) they were very aggressive about the boundary wall issue which was ongoing for weeks and weeks causing no end of stress and sleepless nights so I just wanted to stay away from them in every way possible.

Anyway the above is a different matter. Even though I had said no, I have noticed they have now started bricking up the gap between our two properties. The brickwork is so badly done it clearly looks out of line with my front wall and looks like part of MY front wall brickwork which has been badly done because my house sits a bit behind theirs. They have also bricked up the back of the gap. The brickwork and mortar is actually stuck to my wall all up these gaps (front and back). They have also poured concrete into the 10 metre long gap to a height of about 30cm which has obviously dried onto my wall and I am worried it was gone over my damp course line. They have yet to reach full height with the brickwork and I don't know what they will fill the rest of it with. Bearing in mind this external wall they've attached their brickwork onto is part of my house and was previously completely separated from them, are they allowed to do this?

They have now also completely gone beyond the line of the physical boundary wall running behind our gardens by a full 4 or 5 inches as my build does not go up to the boundary line at the back part so that brickwork they did there is technically on my land. (They were disputing ownership of that wall which still hasn't been resolved previously but that's a different matter).

What can I do to stop them bricking this up further or to get them to remove it? Will going the legal route aggravate the situation? My legal adviser told me last week that that they have already committed criminal damage by knocking down part of the boundary wall for their build as on my deeds it is marked as my responsibility and has been there for 40 years. I have to phone the legal team tomorrow about this issue but not sure if they're about at the weekend. They had previously advised me to talk to these neighbours first but it seems these people can't or don't want to understand 'boundaries' of any kind.

Any advice appreciated, thank you.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby arborlad » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:31 am

C0912 wrote: Do boundaries run in a straight line between houses?




This might help:


arborlad wrote:
Mollie90123 wrote:Also, you cannot assume that the line on the semidetached side runs in a line through the house front to back. I have been told that where it 'attaches' on the front does not correspond ie in a line where it attaches at the back.
This really confuses me!



If you take your average semi as an example, with the inner party wall running North-South.

A will be the most Northerly part of the boundary.

B will be the centre of the party wall at the rear.

C will be the centre of the party wall at the front.

D will be the most Southerly part of your land - usually where it abuts the highway.

A-B, B-C, C-D, will all be a series of straight lines - hardly ever will A-D be a straight line.
arborlad

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Re: Neighbour is disputing the physical boundary.

Postby jonahinoz » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:28 am

Hi,

If the ground is sloping, are your neighbours measuring horizontally, or along the ground, and would it make any difference anyway?

John W
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