buying highway land

buying highway land

Postby tregger » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:36 pm

i have a strip of land that is part of the highway , they have decided that part of it is surplus to requirements, and can be sold after stopping up.
i have no idea if it is designated as amenity land or not , nothing in the title deeds suggest that.
if i buy this would i be able to extend my boundary and move the fence
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Re: buying highway land

Postby ukmicky » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:01 am

tregger wrote:i have a strip of land that is part of the highway , they have decided that part of it is surplus to requirements, and can be sold after stopping up.
i have no idea if it is designated as amenity land or not , nothing in the title deeds suggest that.
if i buy this would i be able to extend my boundary and move the fence


Normally when land is sold the details of the sale will mention what class or use the land is.


You will not however be able to incorporate it into your garden without planning permission for change of use
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: buying highway land

Postby tregger » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:44 am

ukmicky wrote:
tregger wrote:i have a strip of land that is part of the highway , they have decided that part of it is surplus to requirements, and can be sold after stopping up.
i have no idea if it is designated as amenity land or not , nothing in the title deeds suggest that.
if i buy this would i be able to extend my boundary and move the fence


Normally when land is sold the details of the sale will mention what class or use the land is.


You will not however be able to incorporate it into your garden without planning permission for change of use


what does the status of the land become after removal of highway rights is there a generic status ?
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Re: buying highway land

Postby Roblewis » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:23 pm

Once it is stopped it certainly is not classed as Highway. The LA is then able to define any limitations via the deeds on sale. No limitations then you are free to do whatever you wish within the limits of any planning requirements. Talk to the LA they will certainly produce a draft of the deeds if you are interested in purchase. If they are selling then any classification as amenity land will likely be defunct as this is tied to the area being part of the public highway and publicly accessible.
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Re: buying highway land

Postby tregger » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:37 pm

Roblewis wrote:Once it is stopped it certainly is not classed as Highway. The LA is then able to define any limitations via the deeds on sale. No limitations then you are free to do whatever you wish within the limits of any planning requirements. Talk to the LA they will certainly produce a draft of the deeds if you are interested in purchase. If they are selling then any classification as amenity land will likely be defunct as this is tied to the area being part of the public highway and publicly accessible.


That is what my thinking was, our plot is surrounded by road and there is already a fence that is 2m adjoining the highway i.e directly facing the pavement, so i would just like to continue this all the way around said piece.

The other issue is they are saying this land was originally left as a visibility splay but that does not make sense as the pavement was extended deliberately so drivers could see around this land as it is walled off as it is higher than the pavement. if it was for visibility why have the ground higher in the first place. It also has shrubs planted on it which blocks the view.
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Re: buying highway land

Postby ukmicky » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:14 am

tregger wrote:
Roblewis wrote:Once it is stopped it certainly is not classed as Highway. The LA is then able to define any limitations via the deeds on sale. No limitations then you are free to do whatever you wish within the limits of any planning requirements. Talk to the LA they will certainly produce a draft of the deeds if you are interested in purchase. If they are selling then any classification as amenity land will likely be defunct as this is tied to the area being part of the public highway and publicly accessible.


That is what my thinking was, our plot is surrounded by road and there is already a fence that is 2m adjoining the highway i.e directly facing the pavement, so i would just like to continue this all the way around said piece.

The other issue is they are saying this land was originally left as a visibility splay but that does not make sense as the pavement was extended deliberately so drivers could see around this land as it is walled off as it is higher than the pavement. if it was for visibility why have the ground higher in the first place. It also has shrubs planted on it which blocks the view.


Forget the fact that you have a fence along some of the highway , that is not reason for them to allow you to extend it .There is nothing they can do about that fence now unless you were to replace it.

Forget the plants and bushes currently spoiling any visibility splay , planning has no control over plants as they are not considered as development . The plant argument has also been tried countless times but has never been won.

You will need planning permission if you wish to place a fence of two meters in height and if this land is not going to be kept separate from you current land so it in effect becomes an extension to your current garden you will need to apply for change of use.

Also stopping up a highway under the Town and country planning act is different to stopping up a highway under the highway act. The highways act only removes public rights of use ,it has no effect on the use that the land can be used for afterwards .This land can be sold as is and you will need to speak to the council before you consider buying it to find out what they class it to be.
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Re: buying highway land

Postby tregger » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:01 am

ukmicky wrote:
tregger wrote:
Roblewis wrote:Once it is stopped it certainly is not classed as Highway. The LA is then able to define any limitations via the deeds on sale. No limitations then you are free to do whatever you wish within the limits of any planning requirements. Talk to the LA they will certainly produce a draft of the deeds if you are interested in purchase. If they are selling then any classification as amenity land will likely be defunct as this is tied to the area being part of the public highway and publicly accessible.


That is what my thinking was, our plot is surrounded by road and there is already a fence that is 2m adjoining the highway i.e directly facing the pavement, so i would just like to continue this all the way around said piece.

The other issue is they are saying this land was originally left as a visibility splay but that does not make sense as the pavement was extended deliberately so drivers could see around this land as it is walled off as it is higher than the pavement. if it was for visibility why have the ground higher in the first place. It also has shrubs planted on it which blocks the view.


Forget the fact that you have a fence along some of the highway , that is not reason for them to allow you to extend it .There is nothing they can do about that fence now unless you were to replace it.

Forget the plants and bushes currently spoiling any visibility splay , planning has no control over plants as they are not considered as development . The plant argument has also been tried countless times but has never been won.

You will need planning permission if you wish to place a fence of two meters in height and if this land is not going to be kept separate from you current land so it in effect becomes an extension to your current garden you will need to apply for change of use.

Also stopping up a highway under the Town and country planning act is different to stopping up a highway under the highway act. The highways act only removes public rights of use ,it has no effect on the use that the land can be used for afterwards .This land can be sold as is and you will need to speak to the council before you consider buying it to find out what they class it to be.


How about under 2 meters ? as the ground is already higher than the pavement the wall is around 1m high already. what determines which act is used when stopping up ? can all these issues be resolved before committing to purchase ? presumably they expect you to do something with the land.

is there a specific requirement for visibility splays as they are saying they would like to retain 2m from the pavement.
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Re: buying highway land

Postby tregger » Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:06 pm

just a thought as this land is already part of the highway i have my fence against it already , surely if they sell me the land and i move the exact same fence over to where they have sold me nothing has changed as my fence is still next to the highway. ?

i have found nothing in law saying where close to the highways is stated in either feet or meters ?
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Re: buying highway land

Postby mugwump » Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:35 pm

It will be a new fence because it is in a physically different location to the old one.

As such, PP will be needed
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Re: buying highway land

Postby tregger » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:04 am

ukmicky wrote:
Also stopping up a highway under the Town and country planning act is different to stopping up a highway under the highway act. The highways act only removes public rights of use ,it has no effect on the use that the land can be used for afterwards .This land can be sold as is and you will need to speak to the council before you consider buying it to find out what they class it to be.


how do they decide which act is used 247/248, and how would the status of the land differ afterwards.
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Re: buying highway land

Postby jdfi » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:34 am

Silly question, but do you not already own it?
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Re: buying highway land

Postby tregger » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:42 am

jdfi wrote:Silly question, but do you not already own it?


title plan seems to suggest not.

LA have said they have the ability to sell it now, which is strange as this land was escheated to the crown. i guess it must have been donated to the LA not entirely sure.

can the LA just not do a boundary agreement to save all this stopping up planning permission melarky ?
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Re: buying highway land

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:52 am

Hi tregger,

I'm answering the following here which you posted on someone else's thread otherwise my answer won't make much sense...
Mac wrote:if you're not aware, the law presumes a property with frontage to a road owns to the mid-point of the road (including any verges/pavements).
tregger wrote:why am i trying to get highways to sell me land if that is the case? so stopping up successfully would remove rights and ownership would pass to the homeowner ?


because the LA (or the crown) own the land - I'd say that rebuts the legal presumption...

kind regards, Mac
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Re: buying highway land

Postby tregger » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:18 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi tregger,

I'm answering the following here which you posted on someone else's thread otherwise my answer won't make much sense...
Mac wrote:if you're not aware, the law presumes a property with frontage to a road owns to the mid-point of the road (including any verges/pavements).
tregger wrote:why am i trying to get highways to sell me land if that is the case? so stopping up successfully would remove rights and ownership would pass to the homeowner ?


because the LA (or the crown) own the land - I'd say that rebuts the legal presumption...

kind regards, Mac


ok so assuming there is no title to verge then middle of road law applies.

I have seen concrete statue`s move faster than Highways dealing with this, they are a disgrace. i think they should give it to me for cutting the lawn for 9 years. :D
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Re: buying highway land

Postby tregger » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:01 pm

If highways own title to this land can they not decide on where the boundary is without having to stop up ?

how can land that has been looked after by the homeowners solely for 40 years be highway land.

can the adoption plan be wrong in the first place ?
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