Trespassing

Re: ROW being blocked/obstructed

Postby arsie » Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:52 am

Here you go http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/p ... -ownership

edit: note the 'gov' in the site name, which means it is genuine. There are bogus sites that gouge your money to do the job.
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Re: ROW being blocked/obstructed

Postby asprint » Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:51 pm

arsie wrote:Here you go http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/p ... -ownership

edit: note the 'gov' in the site name, which means it is genuine. There are bogus sites that gouge your money to do the job.


Thanks.

Looks like you have to fill out doc OC2 and then post to Wales with a fee of £7.00 #'
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Re: ROW being blocked/obstructed

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:50 pm

asprint wrote:
arsie wrote:Here you go http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/p ... -ownership

edit: note the 'gov' in the site name, which means it is genuine. There are bogus sites that gouge your money to do the job.


Thanks.

Looks like you have to fill out doc OC2 and then post to Wales with a fee of £7.00 #'

not for a copy of a title register you don't - it's £3 and you can instantly download an electronic copy if you create a user account on the HMLR website.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: ROW being blocked/obstructed

Postby asprint » Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:18 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
asprint wrote:
arsie wrote:Here you go http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/p ... -ownership

edit: note the 'gov' in the site name, which means it is genuine. There are bogus sites that gouge your money to do the job.


Thanks.

Looks like you have to fill out doc OC2 and then post to Wales with a fee of £7.00 #'

not for a copy of a title register you don't - it's £3 and you can instantly download an electronic copy if you create a user account on the HMLR website.

Kind regards, Mac


Thanks Mac

Title register does not give any details about the ROW or if they had any right of access to any part of my property which is found in the Schedules. So unfortunately, I have to get a copy of the original Transfer which can only be done via a completed OC2 and appropriate fee.

It has been posted so await a copy by e-mail.
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Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby asprint » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:50 pm

Have suffered for many years with a neighbour trespassing onto my property with his car and on foot despite numerous verbal and written requests for him to stop. Have taken some photographs and video recordings over the time together with diary entries, but all to no avail.

So last Dec I fitted a CCTV camera which was installed in an old burglar alarm box, not obvious but I am sure noticed?

A few weeks ago I went to see a solicitor and as a result a strong worded letter was sent making it clear that unless his activities ceased immediately that injunctive relief may be sought outlining the likely costs and damages that would be sought if such relief was awarded.

The solicitor suggested including some of the photographic stills taken and also some from video and CCTV footage.

The trespassing stopped immediately. However, initial response from his friend the Earl of ......... a previous lawyer, is they are challenging the the use of the CCTV images as they claim they are breaching the Data Protection Act as inevitably some of the CCTV images also cover some sections of his property. However, the CCTV is not recording continuously but has been set up to only record if something passes the entry to my property and as a result it only records and has subsequently recorded at the times that trespassing has taken place.

It does seem that up until last year that domestic CCTV installations were exempt from the DPA but due to a European rulling in the case of Rynes on 11 Dec 14: http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/d ... cid=263584

it would indicate that any domestic automatic continuously CCTV footage that covers even partially private or public land and people on it are now covered by the DPA? Not sure if that means that any such footage could not be used as evidence? What about the photographs and video camera footage?

Has anybody had recent experience of using such CCTV footage who can advise?
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby jdfi » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:07 pm

In general, the data protection act just gives one the right to see information (inc cctv) about them, and to have incorrect information corrected.

Nothing to stop you filming or keeping a notebook afaik.

Why & how are they trespassing? Do you need gates?
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby ukmicky » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:38 am

If the camera captures images of people beyond your property your images do come under the controls of the act and you become what they call a data controller .

Don't worry about the data protection act as it doesn't prevent you filming if the intention is to protect your property and it dosent prevent you from introducing that film as evidence in court to prove a civil wrong.

In theory you have to register yourself ,however I don't believe they are currently charging or chasing people in domestic situation who don't register. At the moment they haven't made their minds up what to do with domestic CCTV operators.

Coming under the controls of the data protection act does not mean you cant film, it just means basically you need to keep the images secure and not share if they contain images of people unless you can show good cause. A good cause can be if its in the publics interest . Like if you recorded someone on the CCTV causing criminal damage. You could release or give the footage to someone to find the culprit as that would be in the publics interest.

You also have the right to use the footage in court as evidence. Your neighbour will have the right to object but if it was relevant to the case you would be allowed to use it.
The judge would ask why you need to introduce the footage . You would say it provides the evidence of your neighbours civil wrong and is required to prove your case. The judge will then allow its use. He could view it in private to see if the footage was relevant first .

As jdfi say your neighbour has a right to request footage of himself but he will need to supply, evidence of identity , details such as times, date etc as you are not expected to trawl through all the footage to find any relevant images and you have the right to charge a tenner every time he requests any footage of himself.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby asprint » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:31 am

Thank you for the replies and advice.

From what I have been able to see the ICO have only issued guidelines in the UK in May 15 https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisati ... actice.pdf with respect to domestic use of cctv.

So does that mean any recordings taken before that time, purely for recording the trespassing activity would be exempt and not fall foul of the DPA?

What are the implications of having to comply with the DPA for domestic use? Is it just a question of having to register as a data controller of have large prominent signs got to be put up on my property somewhere?

The European ruling seems to be on the basics of continuous recording whereas in my case the recording is only activated when motion sensors detect movement within my own boundary for a 1min period or for as long as there is movement, though during that time it is also recording outside my own boundary.
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby arsie » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:28 am

asprint, what is the extent of this alleged trespass? And what is the effect on you? Has the trespass stopped completely now since your solicitor's letter? If so I would tend to regard this Earl's advice as just a bad loser's bluster.
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby Roblewis » Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:48 pm

arsie wrote:asprint, what is the extent of this alleged trespass? And what is the effect on you? Has the trespass stopped completely now since your solicitor's letter? If so I would tend to regard this Earl's advice as just a bad loser's bluster.


Agree +1
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby asprint » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:16 pm

The trespass to date has stopped. But the neighbours friend The Earl of ...... a supposed ex lawyer, has contacted my solicitor claiming that the cctv images were in breach of the DPA and as such are either not admissible and therefore, could not be used as proof/evidence of the trespass and who knows, may seek redress/damages against me as it is now my understanding that it is a criminal offence not to have registered as a data controller, though as indicated the ICO only released guidelines in May 15?

There were some other images sent at the same time which were taken, of which there are many more, by camera or video which I believe are not subject to DPA, so even if the cctv images were deemed inadmissible there are others available as proof.

However, my solicitor, against my instructions, sought that the neighbour should sign and return that he will cease his activities within three weeks or potentially face injunctive proceedings. I just wanted the letter to be sent threatening action if the activities did not stop and take further action if it became necessary. The other party have asked for an Alternative Disputes Resolution meeting between the relevant parties and their solicitors which I fully appreciate is a far better route than litigation, but since the activities have currently ceased I do not see the point of an ADR meeting and left concerned as to what their motive is as I do not see that it is something you can make concessions on, you either stop trespassing or you don't? I am left concerned that they may be trying to use the ADR meeting for alternative reasons?
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby arsie » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:58 pm

Hmmm. Seems you need to reign in your own solicitor. He should not exacerbate the situation by issuing threats that you have not authorised him to state. Because this Earl is a fellow solicitor doesn't mean your own solicitor should respond on your behalf without your prior approval!

Without knowing more of the alleged trespass it is hard to say if ADR might be a good idea. If the other side consider there is a dispute - that's the D of ADR - what is it? Trespass or the CCTV? This needs clarifying before you enter into ADR, I would have thought. I would ask the other side what is the subject of this proposed ADR and that you await hearing. I would be wary of meetings with both solicitors etc. on full hourly + expenses :shock:

For our benefit, can you explain this alleged trespass and the background? Appreciate that this is a public forum, but what has happened is what has happened so it can't harm going public.
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby MacadamB53 » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:07 pm

Hi asprint,

the cctv images were in breach of the DPA

how???

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby jdfi » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:51 pm

Could it be that they plan to use the ADR meeting to give you a telling off re CCTV, and possibly get you to sign a document re stopping it's use?
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Re: Using CCTV to stop trespass

Postby asprint » Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:56 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi asprint,

the cctv images were in breach of the DPA

how???

Kind regards, Mac


Up until a recent ruling European rulling in the case of Rynes on 11 Dec 14: http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/d ... cid=263584 the use of domestic cctv was not covered by DPA but could fall foul of the Human Right Act. Under the DPA those using such devices have to register as data controllers and comply with the set down criteria for the storing and handling of such putting up signs etc.

Following that ruling it has meant that even domestic use of cctv to protect ones property and family is now covered by the DPA if at any time they are recording any images outside their own boundaries be it private or public. In a domestic situation for many people it is more or less impossible to contain the video images that they are recording without also including part of a neighbouring property or public space and so they will have to comply with the DPA which means registering as a data controller and comply with all the other requirements that go with that. Failing to do would mean that you are in breach of the DPA which could result in you being fined and may also leave you open to a civil/criminal prosecution for damages?
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