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Postby monk505 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 12:48 pm

test
Last edited by monk505 on Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Photo Link

Postby monk505 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:10 pm

Visit for pictures past and present.
Last edited by monk505 on Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby kevkdg » Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:59 pm

Hi,

Sounds like a complicated one...

I'm no expert, but I assume that according to both theirs and your Title Deeds and Title Plans the land they have now fenced in offiically belongs to them? If you ask the Land Registry they will copy your title plan onto a more up to date Ordnance Survey Map if it helps, that way you can pinpoint the boundary lines positions against other physical structures more easily as it would be up to date. What was the opinion of the Chartered Land Surveyor?

If so, you could look at Adverse Possession, and attempt to claim the land as your own and get Pocessory Title to it. Although, to do this I think you would have needed to exclude the rightful owner and world at large from this land for a period of 10 years under the new act, or 12 years if applying under the old act via the transitionary period that is currently in place. Or, under the new act, you could claim that you believed the land to have been yours! As it was an open area, there was no physical barrier. So maybe you could look at Factual poccession. Could be an expensive route to go down, as no doubt your neighbours will object to any application you make via the Land Registry. I wouldn't bother if I were you, too much to prove.

Alternatively, you might have a prescriptive right of way, but unlikely if there is another route that you can access your property via, and by looking at the pictures there is, if not you could knock some of your wall down.

If their Title Plan indicates they have fenced in their land according to their boundaries then I would forget about it and get on with life or it could cause you a whole lot of hassle!
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Postby Angelisle » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:03 pm

Monk,
Just my thoughts. Were the properties originally built as open plan garden layout, without fencing? There were probably covenants and restrictions placed or lodged with planning upon the original estate build. This could account for why your pathway (paving) was originally placed there as per image 1, this would indicate that you had a shared access. If your house is number 56 as per image 2 it would seem that your neighbour is assuming his land boundary being as the middle line through the buildings. Did you yourself apply at planning or the highways dept for permission of the dropped kerb and was this soley to facilitate your own access for parking or joint between your neighbours? All these things have to be taken into consideration as you may have been able to apply for what is known as prescriptive easements. This however should be taken under correct legal advice and if your solicitor or your neighbours are dragging their heals then you have the option of contacting the Law Society and asking them to intervene. They will offer advice and possibly contact the solicitors on your behalf acting as mediators to try and speed the process up.
I hope this helps.
Last edited by Angelisle on Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kevkdg » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:07 pm

Go to the LandReg On-Line and download a copy of your title deed and plans and your neighbours, costs £2 for each plan and £2 for title deeds. Check both deeds for any restrictive covenants that state open access area or that may prevent the building of a barrier etc! But my opinion is that if nothing to that effect is found, and the fence they have built is inside of their boundary line as indicated on the title plans forget about it....... Not sure if you could do much else!
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Postby monk505 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:24 pm

Yes kevkdog, the land they have fenced off they suggest belongs to them. Although we have been using it for 18 years. Shouldnt that count as Squatters rights? The fence is only there for a year. We have many members of the street who will back the statement of previous residents also used the garden that they have now blocked off.

Angelisle, yes we are 56 and they are assuming that the boundary is in the middle. Although the deeds clearly state that its 1.2 m from the end of the kerb across what belongs to us. Problems with deeds is that they arent always to scale and it shows a straight line also.

The gardens are an open plan without fencing. There side which is on the left had steps at an angle of about 1.2 m and think thats why I belive the builders had gave us the 1.2 metres angled at our end.

We going to visit the land registry today to see what they think of this situation as its quite difficult. As you will see we only have the garage to walk to our home making it difficult to come through.
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Postby Angelisle » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:29 pm

Monk I added further information to my original post.
Links below www.landregisteronline.gov.uk here you can download copies of each property for £4 per property.
www.lawsociety.org.uk
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Postby monk505 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:32 pm

Thanks Angelisle, going to take mum to the land registry and see how that goes first, will report back on how it goes.
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Postby kevkdg » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:33 pm

Squatters Rights = Adverse Possession - This could be expensive, as you will have to state a case via a solicitor and get declarations from your neighbours etc and submit it to the land registry. They will either accept or reject it. If they accept your case is valid, they inform all interested parties such as your neighbour, they mortgage lender etc and give them the chance to object, which they undoubtedly will. Then you will have to pursue it down the legal route (expensive). As it was an open area for a consecutive period of 10 or 12 years (depending which option you go for), I guess you could attempt to claim adverse possession via factual poccession, or by the fact that you truly believed it to be your land, which of course you did. The ownus is on you to prove it. Downside is you are no longer in pocession of the land.

I don't follow the 1.2 metres form kerb description, can't see what you mean. That said I can't seem to access the pictures at the moment!
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Postby monk505 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:39 pm

If you see the end of the kerb of where the wall ends in pic 2, from that there is a 1.2 m access across.

We can prove its ours as we have been using it for numeorus years and have a petition done by those on the street which is all signed stating it belongs to us. I guess its going to be expensive but when you use the land for 18 years and then the neighbours just take it, it hurts. We hoping to see what the land registry see's of this.
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Postby monk505 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:41 pm

Try again for the pictures - Pics should be there was going to upload more pics but on my other PC :(
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Postby kevkdg » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:46 pm

I sympathise.

However, the land at PRESENT legally belongs to whoever the Title Plan and Deeds state it belongs to (allowing for a % of inaccuracy in the Ordnance Survey Maps etc and the fact they are a guide only). If you say they have built the fence along but within the line of their legal boundary as per their plans then until you succesfully prove Adverse Possession of it and get awarded the title to this land, the land still legally belongs to your neighbour. If however the fence encroaches onto your boundary you request its removal and repositioning. The Land Registry will only offer advice and will not resolve a boundary dispute. It is good that you have your neighbours on side.

Still can't access the pics!
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Postby kevkdg » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:48 pm

By neighbours I mean those in the street obviously. Pics working ok now!
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Postby Maverick.uk » Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:00 pm

kevkdg wrote:By neighbours I mean those in the street obviously. Pics working ok now!


Not for me !!

But if your deeds have measurements then that needs to be considered. If the neighbours deeds complement yours measurement wise then there is no argument the land is yours. You need to see both sets.

Regards

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