need advice

Re: need advice

Postby pilman » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:44 pm

The first thing to do is buy from Land Registry web-site, at a a cost of £4, the register of title which will indicate quite clearly who owns the land in the title number you have been provided with.

My guess will be the developer of the estate.

The land is probably designated as amenity area in the planning system, so that if you erect a fence there will be a change of use to residential garden which will bring the wrath of the Enforcement Officer down on you.

You will need to post back after finding out who is the owner to let me know if I am correct in this off the cuff interpretation of your photos.
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Re: need advice

Postby Mattylad » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Yes it is your responsibility.

This is why the law phohibits you from putting anything other than a 1m fence next to a highway without planning permission where it will be assessed to see if it interfeirs with visibility.

Looking at this I suspect that any further fencing would be rejected.
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Re: need advice

Postby tregger » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:36 pm

have spoken to the LR and they have informed it is the builder who owns that piece of land including all the grass verges of the estate.

from looking at companies house the developer was wound up in in 1979 :lol:
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Re: need advice

Postby catapult1 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:43 pm

I wouldn't go laughing just yet.

You may be able to filtch the land due to use etc but you will likely still NOT be able to incorperate it into your garden and fence it off.

Who was the developer?
My answers are not of a legal nature, only what I consider to be common sense.
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Re: need advice

Postby tregger » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:40 pm

catapult1 wrote:I wouldn't go laughing just yet.

You may be able to filtch the land due to use etc but you will likely still NOT be able to incorperate it into your garden and fence it off.

Who was the developer?



so i guess the next step is the adverse possession ?

how do i prove use of the land for 10 years if we have only lived at the property for 3 years ?
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Re: need advice

Postby Mattylad » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:51 pm

A picket fence should be enough to fence it for claiming av and keep sight lines clear.
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Re: need advice

Postby catapult1 » Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:58 am

You do realise that even should you be able to claim the land you will still likely NOT be able to fully incorperate it into your garden with a fence!
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Re: need advice

Postby tregger » Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:43 am

catapult1 wrote:You do realise that even should you be able to claim the land you will still likely NOT be able to fully incorperate it into your garden with a fence!


well we won`t know unless we try , maybe we could use half the land so no issue with high fences against the pavement ?
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Re: need advice

Postby catapult1 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:11 am

Many have been under the missaprehension that their garden is theirs to do with as they please.

Good luck anyway.

Who was the developer that went bust?
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Re: need advice

Postby hzatph » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:37 am

Has the advice in conveyancer's original post to check with planning and highways been undertaken yet? If not, that must be the next step.
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Re: need advice

Postby Conveyancer » Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:22 am

i have contacted the land registry and asked for a sim form to complete an index search , and they have come back with a title number and freehold status but no owership details

"we have not issued a land registry index map plan beacuse the property is either, wholly indexed under a single title number, indexed under co-extensive titles, for example co-extensive freehold and leasehold titles or subject to complex floor levels"


The first paragraph suggests that the land in question is covered by one title number, but not necessarily that the land in question is the only land in the title. The purpose of an index map search is only to indiacte if the land is registered and, if so, under what title numbers. For further information you to look at the register and title plan.

The second paragraph seems to be a catchall to cover different situations.

What you need to do now is to go online and download the register and plan. Go to the following webpage and insert the title number: http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/ ... pdC5kbw!!/
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Re: need advice

Postby tregger » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:52 pm

Conveyancer wrote:
i have contacted the land registry and asked for a sim form to complete an index search , and they have come back with a title number and freehold status but no owership details

"we have not issued a land registry index map plan beacuse the property is either, wholly indexed under a single title number, indexed under co-extensive titles, for example co-extensive freehold and leasehold titles or subject to complex floor levels"


The first paragraph suggests that the land in question is covered by one title number, but not necessarily that the land in question is the only land in the title. The purpose of an index map search is only to indiacte if the land is registered and, if so, under what title numbers. For further information you to look at the register and title plan.

The second paragraph seems to be a catchall to cover different situations.

What you need to do now is to go online and download the register and plan. Go to the following webpage and insert the title number: http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/www/wps/ ... pdC5kbw!!/



correct i have the register and title plan it covers the road and grass verges however is cuts across my front garden , where as the other grass verges are seperated by pavement.
the plan is covered by one title number.
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Re: need advice

Postby Conveyancer » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:08 am

tregger wrote:i have the register and title plan it covers the road and grass verges however is cuts across my front garden , where as the other grass verges are seperated by pavement.
the plan is covered by one title number.


What can happen is that when estates are laid out not everything is where it ought to be. One thing that can happen, as may be the case here, is that land intended to be part of the public highway or so-called amenity land may end up incorporated within the apparent boundaries of a property. A fence may be put in the wrong place or the pavement not made quite as wide as planned. It is not unknown for houseowners to discover that the front few feet of their garden is in fact part of the public highway.

Have you had a look at the plan on the road agreement that was drawn up when your estate was developed?
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Re: need advice

Postby catapult1 » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:48 am

Also check to see iof the roads have been adopted ans the HA will be able to tell you if they own that piece of land.
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Re: need advice

Postby Roblewis » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:24 am

Looking at that wall though there does not seem to have been any intention that this area was intended to be part of the public highway but was intended at best to be some amenity land that was never transferred to either the LA or the land owner. Indeed it may be that the original purchaser did buy or occupy the land at one time but formal ownership was not transferred or taken by adverse possession. The road layout radius suggests to me that sight lines will not be an issue so I would be tempted to plant shrubs along the boundary and slowly allow them to thicken out.

With regards to the wall it is a retaining structure and appears in need of repointing so either you or the LA are responsible. If it is your responsibility then the land is also likely to be yours as I cannot really see responsibility being transferred such a distance from thewall to the fence. Have a look again at the boundary responsibilities in your deeds or those for this land area as this could be an indicator also.
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