Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Re: Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Postby haspden » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:58 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:
haspden wrote:
ukmicky wrote:Firstly no matter what ,if it is sitting astride the boundary and replaced a fenced sitting astride the boundary it will under all circumstances remain shared. I cant think of a situation where that would not be the case without going into weird scinarios . What do the property deeds say.

I dont have the case name any longer but there was a case that i read a kong time ago that said the joint owner of the shared fence had the right to increase its height to the legal maximum , which is normally 2 meters .

Which means basically if you objected to it because it is heigher than you like there is not much you can do unless its over 2 meters or you have the benifit of a covenant preventing a fence a fence of that height . Or

if the fence is to short for your likeing providing you are 100 percent sure its sitting astride the bouindary and therefore shared you can attach on your side to raise it to the maximum legal height of 2 meters provided no planning laws or covenants restrict its height


And by that logic I could lower it later in the week??

Hi haspden,

you cannot pick and choose whether it is shared to suit you.

does any of the fence stand on your land? (you mention differing levels between the gardens so it should be pretty obvious)

Kind regards, Mac


Many thanks for all your help.

As regards your first point...The gentleman next door forward me this to show that the fence should be considered shared...

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/f ... a-property

Quoting from this..

'Where the ownership or responsibility for maintenance of a boundary feature cannot be decided, then it is generally best treated as a party boundary, and any alterations or replacement of a boundary should be done only with the agreement of the adjoining owners.' Fine I understand this.

But before this paragraph it states in regard to the registration of border features.…

Even if a register refers to boundary features, these may have changed since the land/property was first registered. For example, new boundary features might have been built and the owners at that time might have agreed who was responsible for them.

So even if it says on the deeds that some features are shared AT THE TIME OF REGISTRATION (which it doesn't by the way),'new boundary features might have been built and the owners at that time might have agreed who was responsible for them.' We objected to the fence at the time so didn't agree who was responsible for the feature.

With regard to the layout of the land, there is a ramshackle wall measuring approx. 33 cm from our ground level on which the majority of the fence stands. So including this wall, which was probably put there to put fence posts into years ago, on our side it stands at 2mtr and 15 cm. However on next door's side the land is flush with the height of the wall, so from that side it would be 1 mtr 82 cm.

The first two panels are not sitting on a wall but sit on the ground. One is 2mtr 53 cm and the other is 2mtr 36 cm

Thanks for help

haspden
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Re: Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:16 pm

Hi haspden,

there is a ramshackle wall measuring approx. 33 cm from our ground level

does this wall terminate at the house building?

if so, what would happen if you drilled into the house wall directly above the 33cm garden wall?
would you drill come through into a room of either house?

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Postby haspden » Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:33 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi haspden,

there is a ramshackle wall measuring approx. 33 cm from our ground level

does this wall terminate at the house building?

if so, what would happen if you drilled into the house wall directly above the 33cm garden wall?
would you drill come through into a room of either house?

Kind regards, Mac


No it terminates 2 panels away from the house. The first two panels are on ground level then the wall.
haspden
 
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Re: Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:07 pm

Hi haspden,

The first two panels are on ground level then the wall.

same question for drilling above the fence then...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Postby haspden » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:43 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi haspden,

The first two panels are on ground level then the wall.

same question for drilling above the fence then...

Kind regards, Mac


Ah I see what your getting at.

Just been out to check and I'm pretty sure it would come out in next door's house. Its a lot closer to their bay window than it is too mine. However don't ask me to check, it might not go down very well! Aside from that what about the height issue?

haspden
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Re: Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:47 pm

Hi haspden,

are the 2 panels set back closer to their bay window than the face of the garden wall nearest your property?

Kind regards, Mac
PS a link to a photo uploaded to eg tinypics.com could make things easier for us...
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Re: Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Postby ukmicky » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:32 pm

haspden wrote:
ukmicky wrote:Firstly no matter what ,if it is sitting astride the boundary and replaced a fenced sitting astride the boundary it will under all circumstances remain shared. I cant think of a situation where that would not be the case without going into weird scinarios . What do the property deeds say.

I dont have the case name any longer but there was a case that i read a kong time ago that said the joint owner of the shared fence had the right to increase its height to the legal maximum , which is normally 2 meters .

Which means basically if you objected to it because it is heigher than you like there is not much you can do unless its over 2 meters or you have the benifit of a covenant preventing a fence a fence of that height . Or

if the fence is to short for your likeing providing you are 100 percent sure its sitting astride the bouindary and therefore shared you can attach on your side to raise it to the maximum legal height of 2 meters provided no planning laws or covenants restrict its height


And by that logic I could lower it later in the week??



How do you work that one out.

Your logic is flawed and going by it there would be nothing wrong with reducing its height to an inch off the ground.

Another situation that is similar is that of a party fence wall . Their is an automatic right under the party wall act to raise a party fence wall unless there is a covenant preventing it to the legal maximum however just because the party wall Act dosent say you cant lower a party wall it doesnt mean you can. .

The right is to place in the ground a shared fence straddling the boundry. Unless it is restricted to a height in the deeds the Law takes the possition that whoever granted the right to place the fence must of permitted its height to be at that of the legal maximum and therefore either owner has a right to raise it to the legal maximum if it was not already. To reduce the height of a fence would cause destruction to property of one of the owners and therefore there is no right unless both parties agree.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
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Re: Am I obliged to pay for the repair of a fence.

Postby ukmicky » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:00 pm

haspden wrote:Many thanks for all your help.

As regards your first point...The gentleman next door forward me this to show that the fence should be considered shared...

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/f ... a-property

Quoting from this..

'Where the ownership or responsibility for maintenance of a boundary feature cannot be decided, then it is generally best treated as a party boundary, and any alterations or replacement of a boundary should be done only with the agreement of the adjoining owners.' Fine I understand this.

But before this paragraph it states in regard to the registration of border features.…

Even if a register refers to boundary features, these may have changed since the land/property was first registered. For example, new boundary features might have been built and the owners at that time might have agreed who was responsible for them.

So even if it says on the deeds that some features are shared AT THE TIME OF REGISTRATION (which it doesn't by the way),'new boundary features might have been built and the owners at that time might have agreed who was responsible for them.' We objected to the fence at the time so didn't agree who was responsible for the feature.

With regard to the layout of the land, there is a ramshackle wall measuring approx. 33 cm from our ground level on which the majority of the fence stands. So including this wall, which was probably put there to put fence posts into years ago, on our side it stands at 2mtr and 15 cm. However on next door's side the land is flush with the height of the wall, so from that side it would be 1 mtr 82 cm.

The first two panels are not sitting on a wall but sit on the ground. One is 2mtr 53 cm and the other is 2mtr 36 cm

Thanks for help

haspden

The advice given by the land registry is simply that ,it is advice . It is not the law but it is still good advice and is given in order to try and limit as many disputes as possible.

The reality is if the deeds do not mention it to be a shared boundary it is not a shared boundary and whoevers land the fence is on is the owner ,unless your neighbour has put it on your land , in which case it is trespassing. Proving it is on your land however would not be that simple.

Just to take it a step further for completness if it were noted on the register to be a shared boundary. .

The law presumes the details entered onto the land register are correct. With a fence the law will still presume what is written on the register is still correct, unless it can be proved to be otherwise.

To prove otherwise you will need to show the fence is no longer sitting astride the boundary and is therefore no longer a shared fence .

As most boundaries come under the general boundaries rule and as this fence is sitting at the boundary the only way to prove otherwise would be to have your boundaries determined . A very costly process that would require the cooperation of your neighbour.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
ukmicky
 
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Location: London

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