Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby muz666 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:32 pm

I live in a mid terrace house, there are 2 blocks of 4 and between them is a "T" alleyway, the 2 middle houses of each block have RoW in their title deeds, there is no issues with these neighbours, but at the top of the alleyway the horizontal part of the T there is a boundary to another property on a different road, fence that has been recently replaced and the owner decided to include a gate in the new fence that gives them access to the shared alleyway. I have checked their title deeds there is no mention of the alleyway let alone RoA or RoW to it, so in my view they should not have the gate. I have spoken to them about it and they say they want access to look after the back of the fence, I told them that they need permission to come onto the land, that the gate needs removing and you can't just decide you want access it has to be done legally. Their argument was that the alleyway was not being used or looked after, it actually is kept tidy and used almost daily, but at the end of the day is is not their concern. Ironically their garden is a complete mess and over grown and has unobstructed side access, so actually with the gate in the fence it makes our gardens more vunerable. I have a feeling they want to use it as a cut through onto our road from theirs, but the entrance to the alleyway is gated and locked, and only the people with RoW have the means to unlocking it so there is no way through.They have stated they will not remove the gate, what is the best course of action? On a side note the alleyway on land registry is listed as unregistered. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:02 pm

Hi muz,

On a side note the alleyway on land registry is listed as unregistered

so someone is using an alleyway you don't own.

sorry to be blunt, but it's NONE of your business (not shouting, just emphasising)

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby muz666 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:14 pm

Mac,

What do you base your opinion on?

An alleyway they have no right to use, that is specifically there for rear access to the aforementioned terraced houses, so I think it is definitely my business, the alleyway is unregistered, owner unknown at present.
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby mugwump » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:23 pm

As you don't own it you have no legal right to decide who can and cannot use it.
It is up to the owner (if and when found) to decide whether to allow the residents of the other house to use it or not, until that time there is nothing that you can (legally) do stop them
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby jonahinoz » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:33 pm

Hi,

Erect a fence across the gate ... which you are NOT entitled to do. But only the owner of the lane can tell you to remove it.

The owner the gate is allowed to use the gate as a means of fencing, but is not entitled to exit through the gate. But only the owner of the lane can stop him.

The owner of the gate would not be allowed to remove your fence, as he has no rights over the lane. I'm guessing "criminal damage" if he does.

Hmmm, garden accesses a securely gated lane. Could be useful to let pooch out on his own. But let's not misjudge him ... it could be somewhere safe for his kids to play.

John W
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:17 pm

Hi John W,

Could be useful to let pooch out on his own. But let's not misjudge him ... it could be somewhere safe for his kids to play.

how about so he can maintain the outside of his fence - that's the reason he's given after all...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby arborlad » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:27 pm

muz666 wrote:............. I have spoken to them about it and they say they want access to look after the back of the fence,..........



A bit of a red herring that, maintaining a boundary feature normally involves an amount of trespass and is usually achieved by asking the adjoining landowner for permission to do so, this is not normally refused unless there is some contentious act (like erecting a gate)..........imagine every new fence erected between gardens also containing a gate to look after the back of the fence,.
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby mugwump » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:49 pm

jonahinoz wrote:Hi,

Erect a fence across the gate ... which you are NOT entitled to do. But only the owner of the lane can tell you to remove it.

The owner the gate is allowed to use the gate as a means of fencing, but is not entitled to exit through the gate. But only the owner of the lane can stop him.

The owner of the gate would not be allowed to remove your fence, as he has no rights over the lane. I'm guessing "criminal damage" if he does.

Hmmm, garden accesses a securely gated lane. Could be useful to let pooch out on his own. But let's not misjudge him ... it could be somewhere safe for his kids to play.

John W
Why would he not be allowed to remove the fence? Once it is on the alleyway it will be seen to be donated to the alleyway owner and no longer the OPs. Only the landowner would be able to take action if it was removed. They would be as entitled to remove it as the OP would to erect it.

There again placing a fence on land that you do not own could be considered fly-tipping
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:36 pm

Hi mugwump,

There again placing a fence on land that you do not own could be considered fly-tipping

I don't think so - the fence is considered part of the property itself...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:38 pm

Hi John W,

Once it is on the alleyway it will be seen to be donated to the alleyway owner and no longer the OPs. Only the landowner would be able to take action if it was removed.

mugwump beat me to it.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby arborlad » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:45 pm

muz666 wrote: I have a feeling they want to use it as a cut through onto our road from theirs, but the entrance to the alleyway is gated and locked, and only the people with RoW have the means to unlocking it so there is no way through.




What sort of lock is it, is it possible one of the other residents will pass on a key?
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:01 pm

arborlad wrote:
muz666 wrote: I have a feeling they want to use it as a cut through onto our road from theirs, but the entrance to the alleyway is gated and locked, and only the people with RoW have the means to unlocking it so there is no way through.




What sort of lock is it, is it possible one of the other residents will pass on a key?

or maybe there's no "red herring" and he's just thinks he's being practical (probably after being denied access by the OP or similar).

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby mugwump » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:45 pm

Who fitted the lock and on what authority? And what is to stop somebody removing the lock as I doubt the alleyway owner has given permission for it.

It sounds like lots of things are being done on the alley and path by people who do not have any right to be doing things in the mistaken belief that they do have the right to control it..

E.G. attempting to dictate who can use it, blocking the alley by locking a gate.

The bottom line is that none of them have any rights apart from the rights associated with use of a ROW
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby muz666 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:20 pm

mugwump wrote:E.G. attempting to dictate who can use it, blocking the alley by locking a gate.

The entrance gate was added after burglaries and attempted burglaries, all who could be found to have a legal interest in the alleyway were asked permission to erect the gate. So the gate is there to restrict access to only people who have a right to use it, and not just a whim.

MacadamB53 wrote:probably after being denied access by the OP or similar
that's quite an assumption to make!
As for denying access, no one was asked in the first place, and as the fence needed repairing / replacing access would not have been denied, as it is mutually beneficial.
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:23 pm

Hi muz,

The entrance gate was added

which one of you did this unlawful act?

that's quite an assumption to make!

it was wasn't it (sorry if it offended you) - when the locked gate went up was he told who to contact should he need access?

Kind regards, Mac
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