Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:16 pm

Hi muz,

whilstever you don't own the alley there is nothing you can do legally about his gate.

you claim your sole concern is security...

Each of the 4 houses have a gate that accesses the the alley.

if you haven't done so already? you should be making these boundaries as secure as possible - locks on your gates, 2m fences.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby mugwump » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:05 pm

The fence gate maybe legitimate, but access to the alley via that gate definitely isn't!

There is nothing definite about it. Only the alley owner can decide that point, not you.

You and possibly the other ROW owners appear to believe (erroneously) that you have rights to control the ROW, probably because nobody has challenged you up to this point, which is not the case. If you are worried about security of your property then a substantial fence and gate around your property is the way to go and not to gate off land that you do not own..
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:19 pm

Hi mugwump,

You and possibly the other ROW owners appear to believe (erroneously) that you have rights to control the ROW, probably because nobody has challenged you up to this point, which is not the case. If you are worried about security of your property then a substantial fence and gate around your property is the way to go and not to gate off land that you do not own..

IMHO this summarises perfectly all the OP needs to know and should be taken as the very good advice it is.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby arborlad » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:24 pm

muz666 wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:The new gate in question is located along the T part behind one of the inner houses, so fencing it off would be tricky.



What would make it tricky?............a section of weldmesh fixed to a couple of angle iron posts would take up very little space, anyone attempting to gain unauthorised access to land he has no right to be on - trespass, can have no possible objection to something which bars that access. Only the landowner can object.

When you erected the gate at the front, with the full agreement of all those who own the Right of Way, provided you took sufficient steps to try to find the landowner, and continue same - only the landowner can object.
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:46 pm

Hi arborlad,

Only the landowner can object.

same applies if someone removes and sets down the section of weldmesh fixed to a couple of angle iron posts...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby muz666 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:58 pm

MacadamB53 wrote:if you haven't done so already? you should be making these boundaries as secure as possible - locks on your gates, 2m fences.


Already there and was bypassed on a couple of properties, the other properties have lower fences
My boundary is reasonably secure, but looking to improve it, but the best improvement was the alley entrance gate!
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby Dave 57 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:43 pm

This thread has dragged on far to long and is now going round in circles getting nowhere. There is little point in trying to contact the owner of the passage, he will probably not be interested in sorting it out, nor have any financial incentive to get involved.
This narrow strip of land is worthless to the legal owner, and has effectively been abandoned into the care of the owners of the 4 houses which it serves.
The 4 house owners should stand together and take control of the situation and do whatever is necessary to prevent the rear house owner using this land.
At the moment he claims the gate is only to maintain his fence, but this could be the thin end of the wedge. He could be looking to use the passage as a short cut. If this happens, the longer it carries on the more difficult it will be to stop it. This needs nipping in the bud now!
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:58 pm

arborlad wrote:
muz666 wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:The new gate in question is located along the T part behind one of the inner houses, so fencing it off would be tricky.



What would make it tricky?............a section of weldmesh fixed to a couple of angle iron posts would take up very little space, anyone attempting to gain unauthorised access to land he has no right to be on - trespass, can have no possible objection to something which bars that access. Only the landowner can object.

When you erected the gate at the front, with the full agreement of all those who own the Right of Way, provided you took sufficient steps to try to find the landowner, and continue same - only the landowner can object.

btw - I didn't post the wording you've quoted...
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:07 pm

Dave 57 wrote:This thread has dragged on far to long and is now going round in circles getting nowhere. There is little point in trying to contact the owner of the passage, he will probably not be interested in sorting it out, nor have any financial incentive to get involved.
This narrow strip of land is worthless to the legal owner, and has effectively been abandoned into the care of the owners of the 4 houses which it serves.
The 4 house owners should stand together and take control of the situation and do whatever is necessary to prevent the rear house owner using this land.
At the moment he claims the gate is only to maintain his fence, but this could be the thin end of the wedge. He could be looking to use the passage as a short cut. If this happens, the longer it carries on the more difficult it will be to stop it. This needs nipping in the bud now!

Hi Dave,

if he manages to obtain a key to the lock on the only exit then the OP & Co could just replace the lock...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:27 pm

Hi mugwump,

which I read to mean that only a person and not a formed entity can claim possession

I think the word "person" in this instance is anybody capable of ownership - and this would include a committee/association/company.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby muz666 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:31 pm

Dave 57 wrote:This thread has dragged on far to long and is now going round in circles getting nowhere. There is little point in trying to contact the owner of the passage, he will probably not be interested in sorting it out, nor have any financial incentive to get involved.
This narrow strip of land is worthless to the legal owner, and has effectively been abandoned into the care of the owners of the 4 houses which it serves.
The 4 house owners should stand together and take control of the situation and do whatever is necessary to prevent the rear house owner using this land.
At the moment he claims the gate is only to maintain his fence, but this could be the thin end of the wedge. He could be looking to use the passage as a short cut. If this happens, the longer it carries on the more difficult it will be to stop it. This needs nipping in the bud now!


I have a feeling the owner will turn out to be the original builder, which seems common with these situations. So it could be considered to be abandoned.
We already keep the alley maintained and some have done for at least 30-40 yrs to my knowledge.

I am curious to the motive for the fence gate and whether it it is just for maintenance or indeed a foothold?

So what can be done to take control of the situation?
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby arborlad » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:02 pm

muz666 wrote:So what can be done to take control of the situation?



arborlad wrote:
muz666 wrote:The new gate in question is located along the T part behind one of the inner houses, so fencing it off would be tricky.



What would make it tricky?............a section of weldmesh fixed to a couple of angle iron posts would take up very little space, anyone attempting to gain unauthorised access to land he has no right to be on - trespass, can have no possible objection to something which bars that access. Only the landowner can object.
[/quote]
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:13 pm

Hi muz,

I am curious to the motive for the fence gate and whether it it is just for maintenance or indeed a foothold?

I thought you asked him and he told you?

I am curious as to your true motive for getting so panicky about a gate - after all, nothing suspicious or concerning has actually happened has it?

I suspect you and/or the other three are nervous it might jeopardise any AP claim you may have been pondering...

bottom line:

1. none of you four can successfully claim AP because you are all entitled to be there so the locked gate and the 30-40 years maintenance counts for nought.

2.none of you four have a legal right to stop anyone trespassing - indeed you don't even know he would be trespassing and he only has realise this and say "I'm here with permission from the owner" (trespass is a civil matter and can only be acknowledged by the owner) and all your "I'm in charge by proxy" stuff is shot.

3. with your properties properly secured only a fool would believe your claim that his gate poses any real security risk.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby span » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:47 pm

muz666 wrote:
span wrote:It's a bit rich, you lot taking liberties with someone else's property by erecting a gate on it without the owner's permission, and then complaining about someone else perfectly legitimately installing a gate to their own fence.

How about you mind your own business, let alley owner mind his, and let fence gate bloke mind his?

That's a little aggressive, maybe you should take your own advice? The fence gate maybe legitimate, but access to the alley via that gate definitely isn't!


No. No, the internet doesn't work like that, nor does GL. You make a post on here seeking advice and you get answers, but you don't get to pick and chose who can and who cannot reply. If you don't like what I have to say then look to yourself, not to me.

I bet you were the one who instigated gating off the alley in the first place, weren't you?
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Re: Fence / boundary / R0A issue

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:57 pm

Hi span,

I bet you were the one who instigated gating off the alley in the first place, weren't you?

how very dare you! :D

Chuckling regards, Mac
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