T markings and no fence

T markings and no fence

Postby BlueFlyer » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:13 am

Hi,

We have moved to a property which has T marking signify that the neighbour takes responsibility of the boundary fence on the title plan. However no fence has existed along the middle section of the boundary since the eighties (Previous owner had children the same age during the 80's as the neighbour). At the top and bottom of the garden is a fence which fits the boundary position so we have clear markers as to where the boundary is (this is not in dispute).

Am I right in assuming that the T markings only signify maintenance and not the necesity to erect a fence if asked?

We are looking to buy a family dog so would like a fence erected, as its at our request and we are happy to foot the bill. If we pay for the fence how should we handle the T markings to show that it is our fence?
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Re: T markings and no fence

Postby MacadamB53 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:59 am

Hi BlueFlyer,

the first thing which needs to be mentioned is that 'T' markings on plans have no legal meaning unless referred to in the deeds.

the second thing which needs to be mentioned is that any reference in the deeds is almost always regarding the boundary features which existed when the wording was written.

so, let's say for example, there was a wall along one edge of my property when it was originally sold off from a larger parcel and the wall (and, more importantly, the land it stood on) was to be included in the sale. words to that effect were included in the conveyance - along with the obligatory "maintain/keep in good repair" - and a referenced 'T' mark added to the plan.

the original buyer then sells up a few years later - at which point the "maintain/keep in good repair" covenant loses any meaning since it is a "positive" covenant (one which would require the owner to do something - usually at a cost) and "positive" covenants do not run with the land.

the second owner removes the wall - he likes things "open plan".

then a new neighbour moves in who wants to own a pet dog and decides they'll keep it under control in the garden by erecting a fence.

we have three options:
1. erect the fence on their land
2. erect the fence on our land
3. erect the fence straddling the boundary

choosing which option to go for does not involve referring to the original conveyance because this only refers to a moment in time.
once an option is chosen and the fence is erected we have five options:

1. tell the next owners about which option was chosen - costs nothing and is good
2. tell no one about which option was chosen - costs nothing and is bad
3. add an entry on to the registers - costs £100s and is not legally binding for future owners
4. have a boundary agreement written and added to the registers - costs £100s and can be binding for future owners
5. have the boundary determined and added to the registers - costs £1000s and is the most thorough

note - options 4 and 5 concern the actual boundary rather than the fence, but if chosen the ownership of the fence could be understood.

costs are based in instructing a sols to do the work for you (you will also need a surveyor for a determined boundary).

in your shoes I'd offer to replace the existing arrangement with a fence on my land along the full length of the boundary unless the existing fences are in excellent condition, in which case I'd make the unusual offer of paying for the gap to be closed on my neighbour's land at my expense.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: T markings and no fence

Postby despair » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:47 am

Since you want a dog all responsibility for retaining it rests with you
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Re: T markings and no fence

Postby arborlad » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:53 am

BlueFlyer wrote: At the top and bottom of the garden is a fence which fits the boundary position so we have clear markers as to where the boundary is



Assuming the remainder of the fence is the established boundary feature and is fit for purpose, simply donate a fence to infill the middle portion, by far the simplest and easiest solution and everything stays correct.

As a future dog owner, the law requires you to have the dog under full control at all times, it doesn't require you to have a dog proof boundary although dog ownership and land ownership are often confused on this forum, I don't recognise this statement: 'Since you want a dog all responsibility for retaining it rests with you'
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: T markings and no fence

Postby Roblewis » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:24 pm

The important thing to remember is that you can erect your own fence on your own land regardless of any T marks. Just be careful not to place any/too much of your own land on the wrong side of the fence.
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Re: T markings and no fence

Postby mr sheen » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:02 pm

There is no necessity to have a fence between properties. He who wants or needs a fence eg to keep in a dog, has to erect it on his own land and pay for it. T marks are irrelevant. Keep the receipts for purchase of materials and contractors etc and take photos of its erection with you in them if you feel you may want /need to prove ownership of the fence.
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