Help required on a fencing dispute

Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby Simplyme » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:55 pm

Hi, Can anyone offer any advice on the following problem/dispute with my neighbour!

We moved into our house 11 years ago and the deeds show that the fence on one side in our back garden (left hand side) belongs to our neighbour and we have the right hand side!! Before we moved in an extension was built to extend the back of our house with the outside wall running close to the boundary fence. As a result, I am told by my neighbour who we are in dispute with, that the previous owner of our house moved the fence a few inches inwards to run parallel and flush against the outside wall of the extension and as a result my neighbour gained a few inches of garden and obviously our garden lost a little space. The fence is now in a very poor state and often looses panels in wind and poor weather which I am more than happy to put back in place when this happens. My neighbour insists that as the fence has been moved further into my garden at the time the extension was built the fence is now on my land and is therefore my responsibility to replace!!

Has anyone had a similar experience or know what the law is in this instance??
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby span » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:19 pm

A dispute? This? Really? Or just a disagreement? Or maybe a debate?

What's your ideal outcome here, what would you like to see happen?
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby Simplyme » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:25 pm

My favoured outcome is that my neighbour replaces the concrete posts, gravel boards and panels with new ones such is the poor state of the current fence!! As mentioned the deeds show its their fence but as its been moved into our garden does the fence become mine? If it does become mine that's fine I will replace but I think my neighbour may be trying it on to get a new fence!!
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby span » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:34 pm

Sounds like it's your fence. What's he say when you said you/d replace it back on the original boundary line, reclaiming your lost inches?
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:53 pm

Hi Simplyme,

My favoured outcome is that my neighbour replaces the concrete posts, gravel boards and panels with new ones such is the poor state of the current fence

that reads like you are someone who wants a fence along the edge of their land - so put a fence up.

your neighbour is under NO obligation to fence his land.

as for what to do with the rickety old fence - bonfire, tip, other.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby Simplyme » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:23 pm

A new fence would be nice and its something I would be prepared to fund if the fence is now mine!! Want I really want to know is who legally owns the fence/has the boundary now it is on my land. My neighbour still as per the original deeds or me?
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby span » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:30 pm

You
span
 
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:53 pm

Hi Simplyme,

Want I really want to know is who legally owns the fence/has the boundary now it is on my land.

you own some land.
they own some land.
neither of you owns a boundary.

if you want a fence on your land go ahead.

if you're both in agreement the rickety old fence was erected on your land - and there's no good reason to disagree - then take it down.

put the new one up along the same line or, if it won't cause a dispute and is genuinely worthwhile, abutting where he says the last one stood.

the entry on the deeds was specific to the first owner of his property to erect and/or look after the original fence.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:27 pm

Hi Simplyme,

I think my neighbour may be trying it on to get a new fence

if you erect yourself a fence wholly on your own land, your neighbour isn't going to "get a new fence" at all.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby jdfi » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:44 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Simplyme,

I think my neighbour may be trying it on to get a new fence

if you erect yourself a fence wholly on your own land, your neighbour isn't going to "get a new fence" at all.

Kind regards, Mac


Except that in 10 years time when people have moved on, new owners will look at deeds to determine fence ownership.
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby mr sheen » Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:05 pm

In reality he who wants a fence, puts one up. You can't force someone else to put up a fence.
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby MacadamB53 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:25 pm

jdfi wrote:
MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Simplyme,

I think my neighbour may be trying it on to get a new fence

if you erect yourself a fence wholly on your own land, your neighbour isn't going to "get a new fence" at all.

Kind regards, Mac


Except that in 10 years time when people have moved on, new owners will look at deeds to determine fence ownership.

my advice to buyers would be to ask the vendor (and their neighbours) about boundary features before buying...
...and to vendors to explain up front your understanding of which boundary features are included in the property...

HMLR advice on the shortcomings of looking at deeds to determine fence ownership:

"Even if a register refers to boundary features, these may have changed since the land/property was first registered. For example, new boundary features might have been built and the owners at that time might have agreed who was responsible for them."

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby Eliza » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:59 am

span wrote:Sounds like it's your fence. What's he say when you said you/d replace it back on the original boundary line, reclaiming your lost inches?



Exactly what I would have said.

My reply to neighbour would have been:

- Either its down to me to replace it because its on my land

OR

- Its going to move back to original position (and I reclaim that bit of my garden accordingly) and it will be down to you to replace it then (as it will be in your garden).

So "Fine, I'll replace it okay, but in the process I will be putting it back to where it belongs".
Apologies for not giving exact personal details in my posts - you never know who is reading....
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby arsie » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:50 am

Simplyme wrote:We moved into our house 11 years ago and the deeds show that the fence on one side in our back garden (left hand side) belongs to our neighbour and we have the right hand side!!

Except in very rare circumstances the only thing that deeds will show is who is responsible for the boundary, which is a notional thing at best. Deeds do not and cannot dictate what boundary features (if any) you should have. You are at liberty to put up a fence, hedge, concrete posts with a wire, or nothing at all. If you want to put something on the boundary line you need to agree where the boundary is with the neighbour.

There is nothing to stop anyone putting up a fence. If it is on their own land it is of course their own property but, as has been said, that might lead to confusion in the future. Not really a good idea except in extremis.

Sharing costs and/or putting up a fence on the boundary are things you would have to both agree.

Such an agreement on costs is not binding on successors who come to own on either side.

They cannot force you to replace a dilapidated fence, on the boundary or not.
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Re: Help required on a fencing dispute

Postby arborlad » Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:28 am

MacadamB53 wrote:Hi Simplyme,

I think my neighbour may be trying it on to get a new fence

if you erect yourself a fence wholly on your own land, your neighbour isn't going to "get a new fence" at all.

Kind regards, Mac



Of course he is, it's just that he wont own it, but you don't have to own a fence to benefit from the definition and security a correctly installed one gives.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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