Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby Pop Robson » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:22 pm

Our neighbour has had a new patio area built at the bottom of their garden to 'match' something similar to what we have done. Which has included raising the garden approx 18-24" in parts.

Alas it's not quite a match to our job and hasn't been done correctly, the builder has cut corners by using our 15yr fence to support soil, hardcore and concrete !

Our fence is build of treated carcassing timber of various lengths up to approx 3000cm x 20cm x 2.5cm, placed on top of each other.

We've spoken to builder on a few occasions but each time get a different reply and basically told one thing one day and another the next, after 20yrs in the construction industry I knew I'd be wasting my time, but wanted to try and resolve it.

The neighbour either doesn't have clue or is playing dumb, doesn't care for our property or feelings (No apology at all) and is happy to get the job done and dusted.

So my question is what do iwe do next, the neighbour has said they would accept responsibility for the part of the fence that is affected if it needs repairing or replacement, which obviously it will do. I've asked them to draft up something to sign but nothing in over a week (To which I'm drafting something myself).

So do we accept this compromise, which is all in their favour or go down the legal route ?

If we went legal would it be worth it, even if we won can they said say they can't afford it ?

I'll post some pictures as soon I can (Is it 3 posts ?)
Pop Robson
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby MacadamB53 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:39 pm

Hi Pop,

just take your fence down - giving him due warning.

Kind regards, Mac
MacadamB53
 
Posts: 6034
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:13 am

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby stufe35 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:47 pm

Excellent suggestion mac !

Pity would have been better done a couple of weeks back to bring the situation to a head, but even done now it will force the situation.

Just take down the fence in that area and put a string line in place to demarcate the boundary line.

And wait
stufe35
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:06 pm

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby COGGY » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:49 pm

Would it be possible to put up a CCTV camera before taking down the fence? If possible a sound recording camera. This would be much cheaper than going to court and may provide very useful evidence.

Regards
Coggy
COGGY
 
Posts: 1355
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:58 pm

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby Sudynim » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:11 pm

With a witness and camera present, take down that section of fence. Wait for the patio base to slump. Shovel the debris neatly back onto their side of the boundary line.

I think that after that, it's important to be helpful if possible. You're trying to make a point, not an enemy.
Sudynim
 
Posts: 2242
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:31 pm

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby ukmicky » Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:59 am

You also need to understand that agreement is personal to him and not a future owner if he were to sell.

You need to remove the fence panel now or force him to remove his soil etc by gaining an injunction if need be.

Me I would give him 7 days notice to remove it all and if he didn't act I would remove my fence panels and shovel back anything that fell onto my land.

You know the way forward on this as we have all basically said the same thing .
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
ukmicky
 
Posts: 4546
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby Pop Robson » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:24 pm

Thanks for the replies, we've tried hard to do this friendly but the neighbour doesn't seem to know what to and probably only has the builder advising them.

We've took some of the fence down, but held fire on the bottom part which is holding back the compacted hardcore and probably some soil, the concrete base was poured with steel reinforcing and is about 6inches thick so probably won't move for a long time even if we take the fence down.

ukmicky wrote:You also need to understand that agreement is personal to him and not a future owner if he were to sell.

You need to remove the fence panel now or force him to remove his soil etc by gaining an injunction if need be.
.


That is a concern as they could sell as soon as their building work is done.

What sort of injunction ? I'm concerned that this will end up costly and nothing will get done :(
Pop Robson
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby Pop Robson » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:27 pm

They've also level the garden at the end and raised the height between approx 12-18 inches, as it previously sloped

Pre Fence Removal taken from neighbours side

Image

Image

Some fence removed

Image

Bottom Fence Part removed, holding fire as this will be a real pain for us as well !!

Image
Pop Robson
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby ukmicky » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:18 pm

I would be removing it and informing him that he needs to build his own retaining wall on his own land because without it should any of his land collapse onto yours (which it will at some time )he will be causing an actionable nuisance.

Should that happen and you took him to court you would gain damages and the court would be ordering him to either remove the earth or build a retaining wall. The problem is if he were to build his own retaining wall without yours being their he may build it to far over preventing your fence from going back.

Take him and the builder onto your land show him the earth mound and ask him what he is going to do about it.
Advice given is not legally qualified and you are advised to gain a professional opinion
ukmicky
 
Posts: 4546
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:13 pm
Location: London

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby Pop Robson » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:28 pm

ukmicky wrote:Take him and the builder onto your land show him the earth mound and ask him what he is going to do about it.


Thanks for the reply, we've tried talking to the neighbour and builder at least 3 times and they aren't interested.

So, we've started to take the rest of the fence and realised that it is nowhere near safe enough anyway, only some metal brackets with rusty screws holding it together which I fitted 15yrs ago ! I won't be letting my grandson anywhere near it.

I've also spoke to a RICS surveyor and some brickies I know and they all said the same it needs a 9 inch retaining wall.
Pop Robson
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby arborlad » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:42 am

Your neighbours and builders need, initially, a gentle nudge into doing things correctly, not only are they using your property for support, they are removing support from the uphill neighbour without any (apparent) intention to replace it with something suitable.

There's a strange mix of 'rights and wrongs', some reasonable quality of work but a complete absence of a return on that block wall adjacent to your fence, a nice, clean, well used shovel instead of the usual concrete encrusted one where work is of dubious quality.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7386
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby Pop Robson » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:01 pm

Suggested to the neighbours that the existing 15yr old pressure treated carcassing (47mm thick) is replaced with new like for like up to the top of their concrete patio at their cost. Plus they take responsiblity for it too.

It's not ideal but an easy and cost effective fix, but at least will last a long time, rather than the exsisting timber that's on its way out.

They got a bee in their bonnet that I was getting a new fence, rather than they were getting a new retaining 'wall' of sorts.

So sent them an email with the detail, just waiting to see if they agree. I doubt very much they can come up with a better solution.
Pop Robson
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby arborlad » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:50 am

Pop Robson wrote:Suggested to the neighbours that the existing 15yr old pressure treated carcassing (47mm thick) is replaced with new like for like up to the top of their concrete patio at their cost..



I can't see that working with that size of timber, especially given the lengths - 3m/10ft.




Plus they take responsiblity for it too.



Ownership and responsibility are generally taken as one and the same in the context of boundary features, you might be creating problems for yourself or a future owner.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
arborlad
 
Posts: 7386
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 6:30 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby Pop Robson » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:25 am

arborlad wrote:I can't see that working with that size of timber, especially given the lengths - 3m/10ft.


It's what's there now although 15yrs old.

I can't see a straight forward solution, unless I go for an injuction, which I know nothing about doing at present or where thake will lead too !

arborlad wrote:Ownership and responsibility are generally taken as one and the same in the context of boundary features, you might be creating problems for yourself or a future owner.


Thanks, I'll have to see what their response is and take it from there
Pop Robson
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Re: Fence used to retain hardcore, soil and concrete patio !

Postby Pop Robson » Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:40 pm

Update:

I've had an offer from the neighbour via their builder to replace the top 4 boards show in the last picture, but not the bottom 2 and I quote "as there was soil already against them" !

No mention of the other part of the fence where there is a mountain of soil !

I declined and recommended that the neighbour doesn't ask the builder that caused the problem for advice.
Pop Robson
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Ads are not endorsed by www.gardenlaw.co.uk or the staff thereof and visitors should perform their own due diligence on the product or service offered.
 
Next

Return to Fences

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests