Fence ownership

Re: Fence ownership

Postby NickyBlake » Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:48 pm

Its concrete posts with a slot in fence panel, there are 2 & half 6ft panels from the house then dropping down to 3ft panels further into the garden. The 6ft ones look slightly newer. The houses are ex council from 1950's so doubtful these exact panels have been there that long.

Since i started this thread we have actually messaged them and said, we always believed it to be ours however they have provided proof they are happy with so its their fence and their responsibility we will not be contributing or maintaining it further. They now wish to see our deeds before proceeding.
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby arborlad » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:04 am

NickyBlake wrote:Its concrete posts with a slot in fence panel......The houses are ex council from 1950's




Not the original fence.
arborlad

smile...it confuses people
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby NickyBlake » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:16 am

I agree. Doesn't match up with any of the other features so we presume they were added at some point after the previous owners purchased from the council.

Frustrating that we've conceded and said "okay they're yours" and that's still not the end of it ! I have a feeling they are wanting their preference and our finances
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby Collaborate » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:38 am

Whoever it belongs to they can't force you to replace it.

The pre-registration deeds are normally handed over on completion of the sale. Your solicitors might have had it, though if there were any it's likely they'd have sent them to you.

If it's ex-council it might be leasehold, in which case look at the lease.
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby NickyBlake » Mon Mar 07, 2016 5:43 pm

Further update.

I've found our paperwork, there is a home sellers form that states it's our fence, the land registry plan with a t marker and also the deeds that state the boundary is ours.

So, with all that in mind, the neighbour has booked for the fence to be replaced at their cost this week.

Is it wise to allow that to go ahead ? Should we point out the above ? If we don't stop her doing it now could that cause any issues in the future ?

We don't want to pay anything out right now, equally don't want a legal muddle in the future !
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:47 pm

Hi NickyBlake,

the land registry plan with a t marker and also the deeds that state the boundary is ours.

the plan you posted before showed all the boundary features which surrounded the property shaded red were included in the sale of that property, and you confirmed this was your neighbour's property.

the sellers pack is not evidence of ownership, it is evidence of what the seller was claiming and may be proven to be wrong (the buyer may sue in these circumstances).

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby NickyBlake » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:45 pm

Thanks for your reply Mac,

So now we have a similar plan also showing all boundaries and features of such were included in the sale of our property, where do we stand ?

The plan the neighbours have produced isnt identified as to what it is - the features of the surrounding landscape would suggest they are builders plans, there are quite a few things that are different but most importantly where the neighbour is stating there is a T there is a man hole cover and drain (that is fully on our side of the fence physically but on plan is fully on their side) which the plan could be marking.

So if they've produced something thats outdated ? if we both have proof of T markers and its decided other ways I thought the homesellers pack would be the decider
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby MacadamB53 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:56 pm

Hi NickyBlake,

as I said in my very first response:

unless [the plan] is referred to in the register (ie there are words which explicitly tell the reader how to interpret the plan) any 'T' marks are meaningless

if neither of the plans are conveyancing plans they are meaningless.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby NickyBlake » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:12 pm

I have no idea if they have any mention of it, mine says under "The third schedule" 2, to keep in good repair and condition at all times to the satisfaction of the council all fences boundary walls retaining walls or other means of boundary demarcation of such a type and description as those present erected or laid out on the boundaries of the property shown marked with an inward facing T on the plan annexed and not to erect any other walls fences hedges or other structures of any type whatsoever on the property without the previous consent in writing of the council.
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:49 pm

Hi NickyBlake,

you said on another thread:
the title register for the paper copy we have details boundaries but the online version just detailed previous owner
to order a copy of the title register you can either do it online for £3 and immediately receive an electronic copy or send a paper request in the post to HMLR with £7 and receive a paper copy in the second class post - the paper copy is a print out of the electronic copy (the extra £4 covers the admin, it doesn't give you more info).

if you got your paper copy from your sols he just downloaded it and printed it off...

can you please advise how you obtained the bit in bold - obtaining historical title info is not an available online service.

Kind regards, Mac
ps I've added this to your thread rather than hijack the other one any further...
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby NickyBlake » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:02 pm

Many apologies, missed the last reply.

When I ordered the deeds online for both properties the info I received was a brief detail of transfer of deeds, no plan and no detail of what was transferred. The paper version I found detailed rights to pass pathways, access for maintenance etc as well as the mention of the T marker and boundary responsibilities. What the neighbour has now produced was what they received when sending off for paper copies so seems much more informative.

Anyway, further to this to update it all,

We showed next door the info we had and said its ours and we're happy its ours and we will treat as such. 2 weeks passed and they have now produced a copy of their full deeds and a covering letter that states; their deeds state they are responsible for all boundaries (it doesnt it says responsibility to fence all boundaries transferred but does not mention t markers or any further specifics of what was transferred in the sale) that they have measured their garden and the plan states it measures 40ft - it actually only measures 39ft and 5 inches up to the fence, they conclude that this clearly proves the fence is on their property (on the same plan our garden states 46ft + 40ft split by a wall which is still in situ, it is massively inaccurate). They feel erecting a further fence on their side will result in them losing more of their garden and will cause access issues with a manhole cover that straddles the boundary. At most they believe the fence to be 50/50 ownership and gave us 7 days to come up with a "valid issue" with the replacement of the fence.

We're confident we have plenty of corroborating evidence to back up our belief the fence is ours, we have responded with a letter detailing these and said the next step will be legal routes, going back and forth is pointless especially as they acknowledged our deeds were clear and still produced this latest letter and are pushing for it to be 50/50 but have no intention of permitting our input.

I will no doubt have further updates to come :roll:
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby despair » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:35 pm

I think your getting far too hung up on this

If they want to pay for the fence let them get on with it

No one will care when you come to sell

Just be very sure that all new posts are set in exactly the same k
Line as existing

Removing concrete posts is going to be an expensive job just as installing new concrete ones will be

stop fretting and let them get on with it
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby NickyBlake » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:46 pm

Its a nice idea in theory but we do make use of the fence which of course we couldnt if they replaced, it would also open us up to more complaints - we've had 3+ years of various moans every few months and are just completing an expensive extension designed specifically to move rooms away from them.

Our intention is to just slide out the damaged panels so no need to move anything.

We've maintained it for 12 years, they didnt care until they became hung up on a higher fence, it feels stupid to let them have their way just because they tell us to for an easy life short term.
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby despair » Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:20 am

They clearly sound like non stop bullies who have already caused you grief about an extention

if they are always moaning about things they will find something else to cause trouble over

I assume when you say you use the fence you grow climbers up it well installing your own trellis on posts set in between the existing posts and tight up to the fence will give you a fence you can do what you like with and stick 2 fingers up to them

far better to ignore such people entirely it has more effect in the long run
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Re: Fence ownership

Postby NickyBlake » Thu Mar 31, 2016 7:51 am

We have a lean to that's attached to 2 of the panels, it's possible to support it separately but not without another panel in front of the existing ones.

You're right about the bully part, my gut said let her (the husband isn't bothered and doesn't want the agro) have the fence but there's no point in this in which she's even slightly compromised and my husband feels we've reached the point of pushing back.

If we weren't 100% sure the previous owner of our house installed the fence we would have rolled over
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