Possible Boundary problem?

Possible Boundary problem?

Postby libbo2003 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:05 am

Hi everyone
I moved into my house about 8 years ago and the boundary garden fence to the right of me is shown in my SPIF as my fence. 3 years ago the previous owner to my right sold up and the new neighbour has been a nightmare with me over that fence. He now claims because he thinks it might be straddle to both our properties and not just mine, it is now a garden party fence and not just a boundary fence that is mine. The fence and posts I would say are well over 10 years old, and I have not altered the posts positions at any time since I have moved in. All I have done is change two panels after him bullying me into this. he now wants me to change another panel because he does not like the look of it on his side!! I have said no, but now he is trying to strong arm me by claiming he will get the boundaries re-measured and if the fence is astride his boundaries he will take the matter up legally. Any help appreciated.
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby despair » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:33 am

Tell him to take a hike

If he does not like the fence he is free to put in his own tight up to yours

If its your fence he has absolutely no right to try and bully you over whether he does or does not like a panel
theres no way on earth you can be forced to do anything about the fence ... you could let it fall to bits if you like
and if a fence is actually a true party fence it will be listed as such in your deeds

The SPIF says its yours ...you have been there over 8 years and the boundary has not moved nor can any boundary ever be challenged on the matter of 1 or 2 inches

it will be thrown out of court

Take loads of photos with reference points

contact the former owners of your house and other neighbours

check your deeds carefully they should tell you which fences are yours
you can download a copy from

www.landregistry.gov.uk for just a few £

you can even download a copy of his deeds too and bung the proof in his face
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby libbo2003 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:53 pm

Thanks for the quick reply been to the land registry site which section do I need to buy to check the ownership of the fence?
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby despair » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:54 pm

Best to get both the title plan and title register
they are only £3 each

The register should contain a written record of any T or H marks on the title plan

if your property is quite old you might need to get a full copy of the title deeds but start with above
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby NickyBlake » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:10 am

Sorry to butt in but where would you get a full copy ? I have a similar problem to above (I have my own thread for that) and ordered the ones online and they dont cover the info i need.
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:14 am

Hi NickyBlake,

can you expand please - what info do you think is missing from the register entries you've downloaded?
(you'd get the same docs if you asked for hard copies in the post...)

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby libbo2003 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:21 pm

Hi i have purchased a copy of the Title Deeds and was wondering what this meant?

It is further agreed and declared that the walls and fences dividing
the property hereby transferred from the said adjoining property of the
Transferor or any of them shall henceforth be deemed to be party walls
and fences and shall be used maintained and repaired accordingly."

Does that mean it is a party fence?
Thanks again guys.
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:19 pm

Hi libbo,

It is further agreed and declared that the walls and fences dividing
the property hereby transferred from the said adjoining property of the
Transferor or any of them shall henceforth be deemed to be party walls
and fences and shall be used maintained and repaired accordingly


the phrase I've underlined suggests an address is mentioned in the preceding wording which you have decided not to transcribe (in order to remain anon).

if that address is your neighbour's address, or your neighbour's property was part of that address at the time then the wording confirms that all the fences and walls which stood between you both along the dividing boundary were to be considered party fences and walls (ie the seller was only selling some of the land these stood on, or, put another way, the edge of what he was selling could be found part-way into these).

hope that makes sense?

unless you've any evidence the fence in question does not stand astride the boundary then you should presume it is a party fence.

that, however, does not mean you must repair or replace it (that would be the same if it wasn't a party fence).

your neighbour either has a poor grasp of his rights, or is playing a game for his own benefit.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby libbo2003 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:31 pm

Ok thanks for that advice above,
'the said adjoining property' is actually how it is worded in the title deeds. no mention of either his address or my neighbours on the other side of me.

on the SPIF i recieved when buying the property it clearly states that the fence is my responsibility. So if i tell him to do one, he cant legally make me replace the broken panel because of what is said in this

It is further agreed and declared that the walls and fences dividing
the property hereby transferred from the said adjoining property of the
Transferor or any of them shall henceforth be deemed to be party walls
and fences and shall be used maintained and repaired accordingly."

Also where do i stand if he thinks he can change the panel and I dont want him to , going by what is said in the above? Not that i would bother if he wants to waste his money!!
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby NickyBlake » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:12 pm

The paperwork I found has a plan and t markers, the one i downloaded does not, the title register for the paper copy we have details boundaries but the online version just detailed previous owner. Was definitely not as complete
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby despair » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:38 pm

Libbo

if the deeds say Party walls /fences then they are jointly owned and any decision or cost must be shared

neither party can dictate what is done

Hence you need to firmly establish who paid for the last fence because if your predecessor paid for it because the previous owner next door refused to share the cost you can easily tell your new neighbour to get lost .............get a witnessed letter from previous owner stating the facts

if the cost was actually shared then you can delight in telling your neighbour to stump up his share of previous repair /panel
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby libbo2003 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:53 pm

despair so basically I can let the fence fall down and if he is not happy about it he can replace it?
So brings me to the next question if I go to sell the property do i put on the SPIF it is owned jointly?
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby Collaborate » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:18 pm

A party fence can be replaced by either owner at any time they like. Neither can force the other to pay for it.

Neither can substantially alter the characteristics of the fence (for example its height, or materials used) without the consent of the other. In other words, you can replace like for like, but as soon as you want something different, you need consent of the other.
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby libbo2003 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:28 pm

I hope i have a result here, i have managed to speak to the previous owner of my house, and she has told me she paid entirely for the fence to be changed and that the previous owners of the next door house did not contribute in any way to the costs. she is going to send me a letter stating that. Will that help to me to now take ownership of the fence? Or at least make the neighbour stop trying to railroad me into doing what they want?
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Re: Possible Boundary problem?

Postby COGGY » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:36 pm

Hi

Well that sounds like proof enough for a reasonable person. Send a copy to the neighbour but make sure you keep the original. Some people argue even when proof is presented to them.
I hope your neighbour is not one of them. At least you no longer need to worry that the neighbour can do anything to your fence, as you will have the proof to hand. Good luck. Coggy
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