2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby FENCEMUSE » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:19 am

I understand that there is a 2m rule that applies to new fences - does this measure from the ground level or the flower bed in which it stands - there is a significant difference between the top of the flower bed and the ground level (30cms), neighbours ground level is 30 cms. Fence posts go down to the lower ground level but it is standing in the raised flower bed.
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby despair » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:35 am

2m from original natural ground level
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby FENCEMUSE » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:20 pm

Sorry - I have just realised that the post is not clear.

The problem I have is that a new fence has been put up by a neighbor that is more than 2m high if you measure from the ground level on which it is built, but not if you measure from the top of the soil in the raised flower bed upon this ground. The fence posts are dug into the raised flower bed, which has been made higher by the displacement of soil caused by the erection of the new fence.

The ground level of the neighbours garden is approximately 30 cms higher than mine - so the fence from my ground level is significantly higher than 2m

Should they have requested planning permission.
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:44 pm

Hi FENCEMUSE,

I'd have thought that is a question for the LPA - given that's their job...

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby FENCEMUSE » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:04 pm

Thanks for your reply

Unfortunately the owner of the land is the local council and so I will approach the LPA when I know the actual legal position. The LPA presumably enforce the legal position where such a position is determined - otherwise it is a discretionary matter, over which they preside. I am trying to determine whether it is in fact a discretionary matter before I approach LPA.
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby mr sheen » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:11 pm

The local authority have the right to enforce where it is in the public interest and provides appropriate value for money to do so, hence they often don't exercise this right. If you are talking about 30cm, they would have to be pretty pedantic and have plenty of excess cash to throw at enforcement to seek to enforce a fence between 2 neighbours...oh and esp where they are 1of those neighbours....whether you give it a go is your prerogative.
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby stufe35 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:23 pm

Seems to me you are on a lost cause. If you complain, they will just apply to themselves for retrospective planning permission...and grant it to themselves ?
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby mr sheen » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:32 pm

Yep...absolutely on a loser....they would just apply for planning and grant it....after they have forced you to provide evidence of original ground level etc and all along with stress factor. Then they put up council tax to cover the additional costs you have made them incur. And still...fence remains!

An archetypal lose/lose for you.
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby FENCEMUSE » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:50 pm

Thanks very much for all of your replies. Yes I do recognize the difficulty of dealing with the council in matters such as these - retrospective planning permission etc.

However I would still like an answer to the main question ie is the 2m measurement down to the ground or the top of the raised flower bed. I have already had one suggestion - that it is the natural ground level - thanks very much for that - do you know this as fact ? Can anyone else confirm this?
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:52 pm

Hi FENCEMUSE,

so, to be clear, stood on your side of the fence it measures 2m in height from the top to ground -but the ground has been raised by approx 30cm, so if this was removed you'd be looking at a 2.3m fence?

is it possible to take a similar measurement from the other side of the fence please?

Kind regards, Mac
edit how long has there been a raised bed there? (this fact would be material to the case)
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby FENCEMUSE » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:22 pm

On my side the top of the fence to natural ground level measures 2.3m. from the top of a raised flower bed it is just short of 2m.

On the other side it is 1.8 approx.

As I do not stand on the flower beds the fence from a normal standing position is therefore 2.3m.

The raised flower bed was raised significantly, due to digging of soil to allow for significant posts that were not needed before and to support the new posts.

I was not there when the work was being done - the contractors worked on my land to put the fence up. I did not realize they would have to do this.

The raised flower bed was there before the work began. It is on my land.

Thanks for your help and time in considering this matter for me.

Please let me know if you need any more info.
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby mr sheen » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:44 pm

Did you expect them to remove the flower beds before putting up the fence? Since this would probably be considered unreasonable and unnecessary expense on behalf of the council, then it would probably be accepted that the pre-existing flower beds had become the natural ground level and therefore measuring 2m above them would probably be acceptable.

1.8m on one side and 2.3m on the other seems reasonable.

What is your objection to a fence 2.3m high?
What are you hoping to achieve as an outcome from this?
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby FENCEMUSE » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:23 pm

I did not expect them to remove the beds - I expected them to comply with the law and respect the fact that it is a conservation area.

I am therefore seeking clarification of the 2m law and actual definition of ground level and the 2m rule in relation to that law - rather than what is probably the case.

Thank you.
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby MacadamB53 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:32 pm

Hi FENCEMUSE,

in every way relevant to planning law the fence is no more than 2m tall.

what has actually been installed is a 1.8m fence and your land lies between 20 and 50cm lower than it.

Kind regards, Mac
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Re: 2m rule for fence height and raised flower beds

Postby FENCEMUSE » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:40 pm

Sorry I have not explained this clear.

The fence is 2.3m on my side down to the ground level because it is on posts.

I have spoken to a surveyor who has advised me that the height of the fence in law is from the top of the fence down to the posts at ground level on the ground upon which it stands which is on my side. The fence is 1.8 on their side - because there are no posts - so I know that in law relevant to planning 1.8m would not be counted as the height of the fence. The posts are on my side therefore making it taller than 1.8 - and that is where the raised flower bed comes in.

Do you still stand by your comments.

Thanks
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