Fencing question

Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby George.K. » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:39 pm

COGGY wrote:Your sympathy for the landlord is really misplaced. In any case how do you know how much was paid for this fence? The Landlord owns the property and has an obligation both to his tenant and to yourself.

He has purchased the property and let it to a tenant. Therefore he is not entirely stupid. Probably he was not bothered much about the fence. In fact it is possible that the fencer said he would need to move the last post imo and the Landlord assumed that would be ok. If he did not bother to set the terms that is hardly your fault.

Regards Coggy


I know I shouldn't feel bad for asking for it to be rectified. It just makes me cross when tradesmen cut corners due to laziness but are still more than happy to charge top dollar. I also think the landlord is new to all of this - I picked up on this when I spoke to him so assuming the fence guy did as well!
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Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby arborlad » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:56 am

George.K. wrote:I just want to check that I can insist that the post is moved?



Yes you can, or move it yourself.............but, firstly, you and the neighbour/landlord are talking, something that is often absent in these circumstances.

It does seem as if the original fencer is now out of the picture, but if the landlord wishes to reclaim any costs from that fencer, he must be given the opportunity to make good, the courts would expect it.

If you can find out the name of the fencer that did a good job for another neighbour, passing that onto the landlord might be the best way to move this forward.
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Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby George.K. » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:04 pm

arborlad wrote:
George.K. wrote:I just want to check that I can insist that the post is moved?



Yes you can, or move it yourself.............but, firstly, you and the neighbour/landlord are talking, something that is often absent in these circumstances.

It does seem as if the original fencer is now out of the picture, but if the landlord wishes to reclaim any costs from that fencer, he must be given the opportunity to make good, the courts would expect it.

If you can find out the name of the fencer that did a good job for another neighbour, passing that onto the landlord might be the best way to move this forward.


Okay, had an unexpected visit tonight from the landlord and the ORIGINAL fence man. To say I am fuming is an understatement. To cut a long story short, he said that the old fence post didn't count as a boundary because it was too short and more of a baton, so therefore the fact that the new concrete post is now completely on my side leaves me with no leg to stand on. He also tried to show me that I was in fact taking the neighbours garden if anything, whilst using the string from post A to post B - completely ignoring the fact that post B is completely in the wrong place! - my entire point. Also, now I'm not a fence expert, but if I were trying to decipher if the fence is in a straight line I would place the string above the posts rather than draping it across the fence panels on the side that is bending in towards me? There were a lot of other things that have really bugged me as well but he tried to make me feel like an idiot and doubt myself.

I have just looked at the deeds and the gardens go in a straight line. Its a very simple design. I have a patio and next door have decking so the straight line is not an issue for the first couple of panels. I am adamant that I will prove my point. I have no issues with my neighbours but this fence man has infuriated me.

Their shed is in the way and it is hard to measure with string.

Any ideas on how I can visually see a straight line down the garden?? Will a laser do it?
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Re: Fencing question

Postby despair » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:16 pm

yes a laser will give you a straight line

just the same as a taught string would if it was high enough above the panels /posts
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Re: Fencing question

Postby George.K. » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:33 pm

despair wrote:yes a laser will give you a straight line

just the same as a taught string would if it was high enough above the panels /posts


Exactly, taught and above the panels. He was running it half way down the panel - what exactly is that going to show? He was trying to make it look as though he was right.

The fence goes down hill, can you recommend how best to laser it to find the correct finishing point?
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Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby arborlad » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:37 pm

arborlad wrote:If you can find out the name of the fencer that did a good job for another neighbour, passing that onto the landlord might be the best way to move this forward.
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Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby George.K. » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:45 pm

arborlad wrote:
arborlad wrote:If you can find out the name of the fencer that did a good job for another neighbour, passing that onto the landlord might be the best way to move this forward.


I think the landlord is trying to get the original fence guy to fix his dodgy work - he paid a lot of money for that work - and looking at the materials used, my guess is that an extremely large portion of that was labour charges.
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Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby arborlad » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:00 am

George.K. wrote:
arborlad wrote:
arborlad wrote:If you can find out the name of the fencer that did a good job for another neighbour, passing that onto the landlord might be the best way to move this forward.


I think the landlord is trying to get the original fence guy to fix his dodgy work - he paid a lot of money for that work - and looking at the materials used, my guess is that an extremely large portion of that was labour charges.



What you and the landlord want is somebody who is going to do it properly once. If the landlord perseveres with the 'fencer' you're just going to have someone who will do it badly twice.

I know I said the original 'fencer' should be given the opportunity to rectify things but from what you've said in the update, I don't think he is capable of it!
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Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby George.K. » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:12 am

I know I said the original 'fencer' should be given the opportunity to rectify things but from what you've said in the update, I don't think he is capable of it![/quote]


I've just gone out there AGAIN and thought I would try measure the width of the garden at both top and bottom and see how they compare. The deeds show that all the houses here have gardens that are exactly the width of the house - top and bottom (perfect little rectangle). There are no diagonal lines, its just straight down. Very simple.

So, next door have decking and I have patio, so where the first 2 panels go are obvious. If anything, I've come up worse as he took my patio brick out to fit the post. For the sake of a straight line though, I can live with that. So surely 2 panels create a straight line and the line should be continued the same down the garden? Would that not keep to the deeds?

Being creative and only one pair of hands, I've tied string to a brick and tried to roughly measure the width and tied knots to pinpoint the difference between top and bottom. NO surprises here - when I held the string up against the back fence, the difference between the 2 knots was 2 fence slats in distance - the exact distance which I have been saying the last post needs to move over by.

Urrrghhh, I'm driving myself crazy. I can see it and I just can't understand why no one else seems to understand what I am saying.
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Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby arborlad » Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:50 am

George.K. wrote:So surely 2 panels create a straight line and the line should be continued the same down the garden? Would that not keep to the deeds?




Any chance of a sketch or the title plan..................what you seem to be saying is that you are trying to establish where the rest of the fence should go, using the alignment of two panels which you assert are not in the correct position :?: ............don't put too much faith in the deeds.
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Re: New neighbour, new fence

Postby George.K. » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:25 am

arborlad wrote:
George.K. wrote:So surely 2 panels create a straight line and the line should be continued the same down the garden? Would that not keep to the deeds?




Any chance of a sketch or the title plan..................what you seem to be saying is that you are trying to establish where the rest of the fence should go, using the alignment of two panels which you assert are not in the correct position :?: ............don't put too much faith in the deeds.


Sorry I'm confusing things. Basically, where the fence meets the building/house, you can't really confuse the positioning of where it should go as it has to sit between my patio and his decking, as well as being just on the other side of his drainpipe. The previous post that sat there was the same thickness. So, those first 2 panels run straight. What I am saying is if that line is followed through the rest of the garden, to me it looks as though the natural finish point will be near enough around the slat where the original post was fixed.

As it stands, he has done the first 2 panels straight, then he has slightly gone over next doors border and back again in a zig zag, and then the last 2 panels are where he couldn't quite get to grips with dot-to-dot and with their shed being in the way and just fixed the post as best he could and made it join up. So to summarise, it sort of looks straight-ish in a drunken kind of way and then the last 2 panels bend over towards my side. The concrete post is now fixed on land that I previously could physically stand on.

So my main gripe is that I have all of the post rather than half. And if in future someone new comes to replace the fence, and it is done correctly using point A and point B and a straight line in between, my garden will lose all the bit in the middle because point B is no longer where it used to be.
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Re: Fencing question

Postby despair » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:50 am

Have you tried looking at the line of fencing from nearest upstairs window that should give you a better view and then a photo should show the wonky run
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Re: Fencing question

Postby George.K. » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:05 am

despair wrote:Have you tried looking at the line of fencing from nearest upstairs window that should give you a better view and then a photo should show the wonky run


OMG that is so weird. I live in a maisonette so don't have access to upstairs BUT I've just texted my neighbour upstairs asking if I can look out her window. I don't question that it's wonky. Fence guys accusations were that I am taking up next doors garden rather than the other way round and I should pretty much shut up. But again my point is - he changed where the final post sits so clearly if you run string from point A to the new/bent point B then it will give the illusion this is the case. But if you move the string back to the original post, then it's a very different story!
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Re: Fencing question

Postby COGGY » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:38 am

You are going round in circles trying to prove you are right, just because the fencer and the landlord have said differently. The fencer has said it to save himself having to change his mistake. The landlord has said it cos he is not really bothered, does not live there, the fencer is not going to fix it, so he will try to prove black is white if necessary.

There was no problem where the fence was positioned previously, so that is where the new fence would normally be sited. The fencer is in the wrong. Do not waste time trying to prove yourself to be right. You already know that. Spend your time deciding what action you will now take.

Before you or anyone helping you touch the present fence, take lots and lots of photos, showing the weaknesses if possible. Have something on the photo to show the date (newspaper?). You don't want to have the landlord tell you that you have taken photos of the original fence.
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Re: Fencing question

Postby George.K. » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:42 pm

COGGY wrote:You are going round in circles trying to prove you are right, just because the fencer and the landlord have said differently. The fencer has said it to save himself having to change his mistake. The landlord has said it cos he is not really bothered, does not live there, the fencer is not going to fix it, so he will try to prove black is white if necessary.

There was no problem where the fence was positioned previously, so that is where the new fence would normally be sited. The fencer is in the wrong. Do not waste time trying to prove yourself to be right. You already know that. Spend your time deciding what action you will now take.

Before you or anyone helping you touch the present fence, take lots and lots of photos, showing the weaknesses if possible. Have something on the photo to show the date (newspaper?). You don't want to have the landlord tell you that you have taken photos of the original fence.


This is true. I've got loads of photos, an alarming amount lol, and I think they are timestamped when you take them with your phone so should be okay in that department?

I've now been upstairs and tried to get a photo from above. Unfortunately the window isn't quite enough to show it properly, but I have inserted a straight line over the photo running where the fence line should be to align with the first post (most correct one, I think). No surprises on the result. It even highlighted the post further up that I suspected wasn't enough on my side ... the giveaway was the trench in my flowerbed where the other one was and where he forgot to fill that bit with soil.

So... landlord said he would apparently contact land register for measurements. Should I be doing anything else in the meantime or leave it with him.
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