Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby twits » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:36 pm

I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction for some answers regarding, branches falling over onto a neighbours property after we have trimmed our trees.

Whilst trimming our trees about 5 or 6 branches had fallen into our neighbours garden. Whilst we were up the ladder operating the chainsaw, branches started flying over narrowly missing us. We asked the neighbour to stop throwing them over and informed them that we do not want the branches. They retorted with abuse and they did not stop throwing them. In the process of throwing them over, they broke one of the garden lights.

The neighbour on the other side was a completely different story. They shouted over and let us know that branches had fallen over. The branches were then passed over into our hands nice and safe. Job done and disposed of.

After looking up on the forum with regards arising, we have read that neighbours need to 'offer' the branches back and we can refuse and they will have to dispose of them. We telephoned the police for assistance, nobody came out. We did however get a telephone call.

The officer asked if we warned the neighbours that we were going to be carrying out the work and said we should have posted a note through their door if they weren't in. He then continued to state that the neighbours were within their rights to throw the branches over the fence as it was our property. He continued to repeat that the trees was our property and we could not refuse to take it back as it belonged to us. The policeman repeated himself over and over, that it was our property and the neighbour was quite right to throw things over the fence. Is this policeman correct in what he is saying?

Even though damage has been done to our property, the police will not do anything. Even though they knew we were in the garden and the branches could potentially hit us, they will do nothing. However, they are willing to state that they are within their rights to prosecute us for damage to their flowers for branches falling over unintentionally.

If we have the right to refuse the arisings even though they belong to us, where can I find out the legal standings to print off and re-educate our local police. I've tried to find information on the web but everything seems to one opinion contradicting another. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby despair » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:36 pm

You are misunderstanding the situation here

If you cut back your neighbours trees / hedges to the boundary you are required to OFFER back the arisings which they can refuse

However you were cutting your own trees and the arisings were unceremoniuosly landing in your neighbours garden ............what should have happened was

1) you took more care to prevent them landing in their garden

2) you were allowed to go and collect them and clear up

the police are WRONG in the fact the neighbours have no right to just throw them back as they did

I have endured countless years of my neighbour cutting their own leylandi and deliberately throwing all the cuttings my side
that is the situation that entitles me to return said cuttings to their side in a REASONABLE manner
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby Conveyancer » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:53 pm

You apparently started the operation without informing your neighbour. There was no legal obligation to inform your neighbour, but it would have been a wise precaution to have done so.

You were trimming your trees and five or six branches fell into your neighbour's garden. When trimming a tree you have a duty to do it such a manner as to ensure that branches do not fall into your neighbour's garden. You really ought to have stopped when the first branch fell into your neighbour's garden. Whether intentional or not, your action in trimming in such a way that the branches fell into your neighbour's garden amounted to a trespass.

Once the branches were in your neighbour's garden it was not quite the case that they were nothing to do with you any more; the law would indeed be a ass if it allowed us to dispose of unwanted items by leaving them in neighbours' gardens. Even so, you had the right to refuse to accept them. As soon as the neighbour threw them back he committed a trespass; he could not justify it on the grounds that he was "only trespassing back". He certainly did not have the right to throw them back in a reckless manner.

You are quite right that you will find conflicting opinions on the subject. Have a look at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15543&hilit=arisings
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby TO » Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:48 pm

Hi

twits wrote: where can I find out the legal standings to print off and re-educate our local police
It's not the local Police that need re-educating twits, it's you. If you are not capable of carrying out the tree works without dumping, even by accident, branches in your neighbours garden, and clearly you aren't, then don't DIY, employ a competent tree surgeon

twits wrote:Even though damage has been done to our property, the police will not do anything. Even though they knew we were in the garden and the branches could potentially hit us, they will do nothing.
And I'm sure you gave full consideration to the damage you were causing to your neighbours property, and the risk of hitting a neighbour with your inconsiderate and dangerous tree hacking.

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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby twits » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:50 am

TO wrote:It's not the local Police that need re-educating twits, it's you.


Consider myself re-educated. That's the reason why I am asking. Crystal clear that if you cut your 'own' trees:
You have no rights to refuse arisings that are being thrown at you over the fence.
The neighbours do not need to 'offer' to return the said property, they just return it.
Neighbours are allowed to throw things at you over a fence and it won't be deemed as assault.
(For clarity on the term assault http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault).

TO wrote:And I'm sure you gave full consideration to the damage you were causing to your neighbours property, and the risk of hitting a neighbour with your inconsiderate and dangerous tree hacking.


Our inconsiderate amateur tree hacking was done, whilst there was nobody in the garden and all that was below was grass. As you say next time we will employ a tree surgeon and call them incompetent if a branch drops over.

From what's been said, if your property ends up on the neighbours side you are liable for dumping, tresspass possibly criminal damage. I take it this applies leaves that fall from a tree and lands on a neighbours garden. After all, leaves dropping even by accident is dumping isn't it To or do the rules change for different objects? Would I be deemed as incompetent at catching falling leaves, would we need to employ a tree surgeon to professionally catch leaves maybe?

As for throwing things over, lets change the object again. If you find a roof slate in your garden, you are perfectly within your rights to 'assume' it is the property of the neighbour and throw it back over to fence knowing they are in the garden it could possibly hit them or damage their property. After all the inconsiderate nasty incompetent neighbour allowed it to land on your property and throwing anything that lands on your property over a fence is the responsible way to return objects. Even if they gave full consideration to the damage they could cause, is this is the correct way to return things or do the rules change because its not a branch or a leaf for that matter. Deliberately throwing objects over a fence, any opinions To?

I'm sure quite a few people are unsure what to do with balls that appear in your garden. Maybe some people think that the incompetent children should not have allowed their football to come over and really need to employ a professional footballer to play for them. Clearly the children have trespassed and you need to 'offer' the ball back, but without seeing where it came from how do you know who the owner of the ball is. Likewise with tree clippings, how do you know for certain the trees you are dumping over the fence belong to the neighbour you think they came from.

As with our case, we didn't see anything drop over. With the assumption that we were cutting trees, there is a high probability that they were branches that we cut. On the other hand, they could have been branches previously cut by the neighbour or the fairy hedge feller that keeps on making an appearance every so often.

From reading around, there is trespass, dumping and ownership issues. Does anyone have to prove ownership of the property before the dumping/trespass offences are commited?

@ conveyancer, thank you for the link. Treeman cites legal case studies in that post, which after googling lead me to this little gem of a site for people who are interested in how the law handles cases. A little off topic, but an interesting list of different types of court cases.

http://www.aie.org.uk/law/case_law_index.htm
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby mr sheen » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:53 pm

Lots of nonesense fast talking to try to justify the inappropriate tree works undertaken and blame everyone else.

Accept you were wrong and vow not to do it again - that is what responsible adults do.
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby twits » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:55 pm

There's no blaming anyone else Mr Sheen. I'll even write I am totally in the wrong for the initial trespass by being incompetent at catching branches that I did not see fall. I vow never to cut the trees again. Wow, this is better than going to a confessional.

I do think I am right in saying that it is irresponsible to intentionally aim and throw objects at people. Or should I be accepting that I am wrong there and it is perfectly fine for people to throw objects at each other because they own the said item.
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby Conveyancer » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:18 pm

Do I detect a hint of irony in Twits' last posts? :P

As is often the case contributors have gone overboard a bit. In their condemnation of twits they have overlooked the fact that the neighbour's response was wholly disproportionate and could on no account be justified. It is not unreasonable to get seriously annoyed if branches come crashing down into your garden, but it is unreasonable to retaliate in a manner that risks personal injury and in fact causes damage to property. Whilst the retaliation may be understandable, it is inexcusable.
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby despair » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:54 pm

Totally Agree

I suspect Twits neighbours are the sort of folk for whom a speck of dust in the house is a terrible thing

and a branch falling in the garden a total travesty in their eyes
but their reaction to it and their throwing of branches at Twits risking life and limb is totally and utterly out of order
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby Mattylad » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:23 pm

Having a branch pass by you (note that you have not said they hit you) is hardly risking life and limb.

And damage to a light? well that can be replaced from poundland.

As for the neighbour trespassing by throwing them back - what a load of codswallop.

Trespass that would never be prosecuted.

Twits, next time (if there will be one) that you want to trim your tree - have more consideration for your neighbours property. You obviously don't get on with your neighbour - so next time perhaps use rope on the branches to prevent them falling and lower them over your own side.

I would also be rather peed off if someone started lopping their tree and letting branches land in my garrden
had they not discussed it with me beforehand.
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby Conveyancer » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:35 pm

Whilst we were up the ladder operating the chainsaw, branches started flying over narrowly missing us.


Surely that is reckless.
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby twits » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:52 pm

Mattylad wrote:Having a branch pass by you (note that you have not said they hit you) is hardly risking life and limb.


Fortunately the first branch missed, the second one was dodged. With being up the ladder operating a chainsaw at the time of said object being thrown, yes in my opinion there was a potential for risking a serious accident.

Mattylad wrote:And damage to a light? well that can be replaced from poundland.

Do you happen to have details of where you get the replacement victorian lamp post shade from pound land? I had a quick look on their website and nothing there at all. You seem to be quite familiar with items for sale in there, is it a special offer or something?

Trespass is an offence and you can be prosecuted. But the amount of people who actually go ahead with it is near none existent. I would imagine that the lack of help from the police or being able to provide evidence plays a big part in having a successful case.

The reason why we were cutting the hedge is due to our neighbour cutting one tree in the middle of the hedge, which in 100% in our garden down to the same height as the fence panel when we went out for the day. Not much we can do about it apart from cut all the other trees to the same level. They deny doing it, we have no proof. Voila the hedge is cut down to the height they want 6ft.

I am a bit baffled by people being annoyed at the hedge owners dropping branches over. If the situation was reversed on me I would be more than happy to walk a couple of yards to the green waste bin and dispose of branches for the extra light gained from reducing the height.
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby mr sheen » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:04 pm

Conveyancer wrote:
Whilst we were up the ladder operating the chainsaw, branches started flying over narrowly missing us.


Surely that is reckless.


Yep absolutely - untrained amateurs wielding chainsaws whilst balancing on ladders is about as reckless as you can get - nobody did a risk assessment there!
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby twits » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:08 pm

Pft, I knew I should have used the type rope. Ladders are for girls.
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Re: Arisings - Branches Falling over onto neighbours garden

Postby Conveyancer » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:25 pm

mr sheen wrote:
Conveyancer wrote:
Whilst we were up the ladder operating the chainsaw, branches started flying over narrowly missing us.


Surely that is reckless.


Yep absolutely - untrained amateurs wielding chainsaws whilst balancing on ladders is about as reckless as you can get - nobody did a risk assessment there!


But not as reckless as someone throwing branches at untrained amateurs wielding chainsaws whilst balancing on ladders.
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